Lighting a show! Help!

[lewisa]

I'm lighting my first show at college and would really appreciate some help.

 

I want to create the effect of moonlight so would it be a good idea to use blue gel 119 lit from the front and then gel number 182 lit from behind?

 

And I need help to create the effect of a streetlight shining in from a window. The room will be dark and the only light that will be used is the light shining in from the window on the actors. But how will I create this?

 

If anyone could get back to me asap that would be great!

[daemon]

How can you possibly think that using a bright red backlight has anything to do with moonlight ?

[lewisa]

How can you possibly think that using a bright red backlight has anything to do with moonlight ?

 

Well I asked a friend who'd taken some notes when a lighting designer had told them about lighting. And apperently those were the shades.

I thought it was a bit weird. See I'm absolutly hopeless and could really use with some help..

 

I thought to use a using ¾ blue and then a pale green (sandwiched together on a fixture)

The blue will convey a feeling of moonlight and the pale green serving to colour the highlights.

[GridGirl]

Don't use 119 for frontlight - it's much too dark! Be careful with green as well, it can make people look very ill. I'd tend to use something like 132/068/079 for a moonlight blue, or I think there is actually a colour called Moonlight Blue - never used it myself though. As for your streetlight, do have a light coming in through the window but don't make it your only light source; you'll get away with blue frontlight or even warm facelight at a low level to pick up faces.

[lewisa]

Don't use 119 for frontlight - it's much too dark! Be careful with green as well, it can make people look very ill. I'd tend to use something like 132/068/079 for a moonlight blue, or I think there is actually a colour called Moonlight Blue - never used it myself though. As for your streetlight, do have a light coming in through the window but don't make it your only light source; you'll get away with blue frontlight or even warm facelight at a low level to pick up faces.

 

 

Oh ok all this info is brilliant. Any idea of what light I should use that should represent streetlight?

So how should I try to create moonlight?

[mark_s]

Okay, let's tackle this one bit at a time

 

I want to create the effect of moonlight so would it be a good idea to use blue gel 119 lit from the front and then gel number 182 lit from behind?

 

'Moonlight' is a very vague thing to want to achieve. Where does the scene take place? What happens in the scene? Is a particularly 'warm' scene or does it need to be 'cold'? What sort/style of production is it even? More information needed.

 

And I need help to create the effect of a streetlight shining in from a window. The room will be dark and the only light that will be used is the light shining in from the window on the actors

 

Just because you're trying to achieve the effect of the window being the only source doesn't mean it has to actually be the only source. To create the actual effect, use a hard-focused profile with a suitable gobo (something like Rosco 78328, depending on the sort of 'window' you want), and a suitable colour for the mood you want to convey. Then experiment with how to light the actors to maintain the 'illusion' of th window being the only source of light. Perhaps use a lot of front/crosslight from the side of the window, and only a small amount of fill from the other side? Whatever works for you - as long as the actors aren't casting multiple shadows, which really would spoil the 'illusion'.

 

Well I asked a friend who'd taken some notes when a lighting designer had told them about lighting. And apperently those were the shades.

 

Get a swatchbook out and have a look for yourself. Don't go on what other people say will work, but have a look and see what you think will work. If you don't have a swatchbook order one.

 

See I'm absolutly hopeless and could really use with some help..

 

No offence meant, but if you're not particularly good at lighting design, nor particularly enjoy it, then why are you lighting a college show?

 

I thought to use a using ¾ blue and then a pale green (sandwiched together on a fixture)

The blue will convey a feeling of moonlight and the pale green serving to colour the highlights.

 

It doesn't quite work like that. If you stick both in the same fixture, you'll get out a single colour - in this case probably a murky greenish blue.

 

The only way to really learn is to experiment. Get a swatchbook and a torch out, and find colours you like, which make you think 'ooh, moonlight' or whatever. Experiment with how you light people - what sort of effect using different angles and positions has. If you don't experiment and work things out for yourself, it will never fully be your design. If you want some reading material, I can recomment 'The Stage Lighting Handbook' by Francis Reid, and 'Stage Lighting Design - A Practical Guide' by Neil Fraser. You should be able to get at least one of those out of your college library.

 

Anyway, hope that helped slightly!

 

Regards,

Mark

[J Pearce]

The other thing to remember is that with streetlight through a window the streetlight may be the only true source, but there would be soft reflections off walls and furniture.

 

I'd imitate the streetlight with a slightly soft focussed profile gelled to an appropriate colour, then add low level infill with fresnels or frosted profiles (perhaps with some abstract breakup gobos in).

[smalljoshua]

Lee 21 for the Street light.

 

Lee 183 is Moonlight blue.

 

But I would use Lee 715 Cabana Blue from the back and Lee 281 3/4 CT Blue from the Front.

 

 

I thought to use a using ¾ blue and then a pale green (sandwiched together on a fixture)

Don't use more than one gel per Fixture as it may reduce light output to below a optimum level.

 

Josh

[J Pearce]

Unless the OP was referring to a split gel.

[lewisa]

The moonlight scene is between a soon to be teenage couple meeting up so it's quite a romantic setting. The show we're doing is "A taste of honey" by Shelagh Delaney.

It's my first show and I have had no experience in lighting design.

I'm only meant to be telling the lighting designer what I want for sort of lighting. But I'm really intrested in lighting design and I'm trying to figure out a bit about it but obviously need help!

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

Thanks everyone for helping me out!

 

I'm meeting up with the lighting designer who happens to be my ex boyfriend as well so I want to have some sort of clue what I'm talking about. All these ideas are really helpfull!

 

What we're having is a stage and then a raised platform at the back. This platform is used when the actors are remembering the old days. So one scene is when the woman remembers when she used to sing at this bar (during the 1930's). At this point the stage will be dark and the platform lit up and someone will be up there singing this is to potray her singing at a bar. Any idea what lighting design would go with this? Or maybe just use a spotlight?

[mark_s]

If you're not the lighting designer I'd worry less about the 'how'. Tell the LD what you want and let them worry about how to achieve it, otherwise you may as well not have a LD!

 

But as you're asking...Joshua's suggestion of L715 is quite nice, although I quite like L713; it's warmer, but more saturated too. It may or may not fit with what you want. L183 is nasty, and definitely doesn't suggest romantic moonlight to me.

 

For the 'memories' scene, it's really a case of finding a different way of lighting the talent, which the audience will associate with a memory or flashback. There are quite a few ways of doing it - unusual angles/colours (more suited to a sudden flashback than a memory maybe), or a sort of 'sepia' effect, or even just playing with the levels. For example I recently lit a short devised piece by some students at my old school, to do with the subject of drink driving. At several points in the play the actors deliver short monologues revealing their thoughts about the action which is unfolding/has unfolded. To highlight that they were thinking individually and no longer acting with each other, I lit them with the bare minimum of frontlight that I could get away with from the extreme ends of the bar with nothing else to fill, and with a shedload of cold backlight. It worked because it was in complete contrast to the lighting of the rest of the play - it made it very obvious what was happening. The shadowy effect worked because it was a very stylised piece, and I had quite a bit of freedom with how it was lit. You need to find a way which fits in with your production, and which is sufficiently different to make it obvious what is happening.

 

Regards,

Mark

(who isn't qualified in the slightest to give such advice, but likes to try to pass on what he has learnt and is still learning)

[paulears]

I get the impression that you want it to look like you're lighting the scene with light through a window - that's the illusion, but you probably need the ilumination light from somewhere else. So think a bit more abstract. A practical street light looks good lit, but is no use for lighting. People lit from just audience side of above look nice- a kind of puddle, and deep shadows on faces, and the audience just accept the light comes from the lamp. In your case, you light the window, but light the actors from somewhere else. Everyone thinks moonlight is blue, so it can be - but more important is contrast and shadows. Even with deeper blues, the impact fades after a few minutes, you brain carrying out a white balance - adjusting what it receives into something else. Daylight is a mix of colours, red, yellows, blues and white. Moonlight is just one colour with one source. So you can play - nothing is really wrong, it's all subjective.

[Ken Coker]

Why is moonlight blue?

 

KC

[alex_hughes]

Maybe Lilac Tint or lavender for the moonlight, could work quite well with the romance too. Poss, 281. (LEE)

 

For street light, 204 or 179 (LEE)

 

 

Direction, however is the key for both of these, not so much the colour. If you're really stuck for colours, grab your digital camera and go take a photo of what you want to recreate. The street lamp effect can be easily achieved with a Profile lantern, and a directional wash for the moonlight.

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

Also context is everything. If the Good old days are good, Warm up. Rose Colours are actually quite good for this.

 

Don't go too overboard with the change either. There's a huge differene between a 'memory' and a 'flashback'.

[Sam Jelfs]

Why is moonlight blue?

 

KC

 

Technically it's not, given that it's only sunlight reflected off a grey surface, but there is the perceptual illusion known as 'Blue shift'.

 

The average moonlight intensity level is below that required for cone cells to respond (typically only approx 0.03 cd/m²), leading to only Scotopic vision. Given that rods do not detect colour we would assume therefore that moonlight would give only tones of grey, but as Smith et al have shown, it is possible to detect certain colours under moonlight conditions.

 

Khan and Pattanick hypothesised that under Scotopic conditions the rod cells create a synapse with the 'off-bipolar' of the S cone cells, but not the L or M cones. This leads to the visual cortex receiving stimulation from both the rods and the S cones, giving the same signal as a blue object under Mesopic vision would give.

 

Or at least tha'ts my understanding of it, but given that I'm not a vision scientist I wouldn't guarantee it as 100% accurate, though I'm sure one of my colleagues would be able to give a better answer to your question.

 

Smith et al (1994) Color recognition and discrimination under full-moon light APPLIED OPTICS, Vol 33, Issue 21

http://ao.osa.org/abstract.cfm?id=41631

 

S. M., Khan, S. N. Pattanaik (2004). Modeling blue shift in moonlit scenes using rod cone interaction, Journal of Vision, 4(8), 316a.

http://graphics.cs.ucf.edu/papers/jov.pdf