Rob_Beech Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 I believe the slave output simply drives another meter similar to the one of the main unit. This is so the band can see one, and the FOH guy can see one. Although more often than not the second one is so the bar manager can see one and the FOH guy has to guess.There may be options to attach a meter to this although I don't know how the "bar" meter is activated whether this uses SPL or just an input signal. Often these are far from accurate and do anything but the job they are supposed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Si Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Often they're set at impracticable levels too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 The Formula Sound unit has both the bargraph (calibrated to whatever you set it to!) plus an output that can have a flashing strobe or similar fitted. If you have Smaart, plus a calibrator (or even another SLM that's reasonably accurate) you can set the display to show actual SPL, and have it change colour when it exceeds a given threshold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*bigrod* Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Was it something like this: Linky Seems very expensive though! :) Yup, I had the unfortunate task of running a dance night with one of these limiters / meters over the LR outs of the desk. It needs a laptop to configure the limiters and the compression it used was so harsh, well, before doors I took it out of line and just used the mic meter. useful for what it does, but it rendered the PA useless. avoid. (patch around it if you can) :) r Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Si Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 used correctly, they are a good tool. If they are taken out of context and their use abused then they can be pointless. I'm all for them but not just for the sake of having them. However, I think what Bobbsy said is interesting about it being a good tool to see how one's ears begin to change as they're fatigued, but the meter will keep telling you the level as it is and not change. At times we have to rely on technology to "tell it to us as it is". Si Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted February 26, 2008 Author Share Posted February 26, 2008 Yup. Just to be clear, in the situation I described the SPL meter wasn't controlling a limiter or "cut off" device. It was just giving a simple, easy to read display of the SPL at any given time. I imagine that, for a rock show, the sound op would be given some sort of level not to exceed but the world I move in is theatre so we never came close to any problems. However, the other thing with theatre is the repetitive nature of the work, doing exactly the same show over and over in quick succession which DOES give you a tendency to creep things louder as the run continues. Knowing that (for example) you and the director set the crescendo at the end of Act 1 to 90dB(SPL) on the meter lets you keep hitting the same level...even though your tired ears are saying "hmmm...I'm sure this could be louder". Edited to add: I've just heard back from the theatre and I have good news and bad news. The good news is that most of my guesses were right. It WAS a remote display from a fairly high quality integrating/averaging meter (THIS ONE) and it WAS set to "A" weighting, fast response. The Cesva meter has a real-time voltage output that allows for an external display. My contact thinks it’s something like 100db is 1 volt so he bought a cheap digital LED voltage meter and calibrated it to the Cesva output. It runs down a standard analogue audio return line. One of the reasons this unit was chosen is that is allows remote placement of the microphone and the readings I was seeing were from more or less the loudest part of the auditorium, in this case the front of the first balcony. I'm told they decided to buy a logging meter because, in the past, they've had complaints from the public (usually in the form of "letters to the editor" of the local rag) about excessive levels on touring shows. They now keep a computer log of any show where there might be a concern about SPLs. I'm also told they run the same logs on some acoustic shows including a military tattoo and these were right up there with the rockers! Anyway, the bad news: the basic meter unit cost about $3500 Australian, so any hopes of a cheap meter for your desk are out the window. However, I'm going to be looking to see if my cheapie might by some chance have a real time voltage output..... Bobbsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djmatthill Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 On that note nothing at all. The thread isn't about listing regular meters. It's about easy to read displays either as a stand alone unit, or perhaps as an add on to an existing unit. ?? Well if this thread is about adding an spl meter to "an existing unit" , then surley the fact that we listed a couple of standalone spl meters that could be added or adapted for this purpose is totally relevant to this thread. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 then surley the fact that we listed a couple of standalone spl meters that could be added or adapted for this purpose is totally relevant to this thread. not really - the thread is basically about the usefulness and practicalities of having the unit available as part of an installation, and how having these tools available changes the way you work, rather than where you can buy sound meters. Listing sources for standalone units is of course useful, but in this context there is a danger that it could just drag what was developing into a very interesting discussion off-topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Beech Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Also, Matt, your example wasn't the one I was referring to. Unless it was just coincidence, I thought you'd looked at the topic and found a meter with a large screen that can be read a little easier as an example. Perfectly valid (maybe Bruce doesn't quite agree) Where as others just listed a random cheap digital meter which doesn't really have anything at all to do with what is happening. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I do agree :( The concern was that, as Rob says, the thread could easily have headed off at a tangent listing random cheapie meters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Quite a few "proper" sound level meters will have an out put that can drive an external display. However, as Bobbsy rightly notes, for the SLM to be class 1 and have logging facilities, the price increases considerably. If the venue is recording a log of noise events as a means of refuting claims of excessive noise level, this may be the most suitable approach - and it is traceable via calibration etc. As mentioned previously, Smaart will provide the large display - but it will also (AFAIR) log data. The Neutrik Acoustilyser with Minilink software will log events, but also provide a display on the laptop. It's rather clunky (a larger version of what's on the screen - blocky pixels and all!) but both approaches may be cheaper than a top flight SLM. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swampman Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Paradoxically "noisy, party happy Spain" has a number of manufacturers dealing with the noise problem - caused by abuse and the lie that louder is better and more fun, or should I say MORE annoyance...CESVA - very good but expensive, the SC20e is the most hated local model, used by the local authority engineers to check for the level of noise leakage. The test done on site compares a background and a background+nuisance source ratio: the installing technitian then limits a show/music bars PA to that level using another (hated) CESVA product (with battery back up of dB registering !!) I have come accross at least 2 more manufacturers with similar products that are a bit "less expensive."Local regulations limit noise to 30 - 40dBA after 10 at night ! From any source: air conditioners, music, etc. The limiter is inserter in the main LR to Eq/amp chain. As yet the monitor feeds are not independantly controlled leading to error detection readings and cutouts... The units usually have a soft limit option (compression) above a certain level...If there is a measured (via a mic) difference between what the system is processing and what it hears: it will cut out !If the DJ whacks the fader to max and lowers to beat the accumulative integration calculation... the system cuts for X seconds !! If you cut it out of the system or turn it off and on: it knows it !!!If you erase the history it registers it on a counter !!!!And all these episodes are recorded in memory...!!!!! I try to avoid the need by using limiter/compressors on main out etc. since these units are at least 1200-2500€ each. However abuse of even these units has led to the existence of companies monitoring abuse via an internet link where venues have been particularly problematic.Most of these units used have at least one remote 1.2 cm LED display and calibrated mic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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