Ethernet port advantages

[Bad_Rock]

In a recent bid I've seen that the light designers choose Martin, HES and Robe because they have full Ethernet port on their fixtures. They had less budget and were going to buy PR until the LD's told them that in order to use Wholehog, Gran ma or any other top of the line lighitng console they needed Ethernet port on the fixtures. I've checked the specs of the other PR moving heads including the most expensive ones and they still don't have it. Is that important the Ethernet port? We are about to buy 575 moving heads and now we are really considering the fact of spending some more money for the ones with Ethernet on them ( to be more specific we were gonna buy the Robe's 500AT but now we are thinking of putting more money and buy the electronic balllast version wich has the Ethernet port ).

I will appreciate if somebody tells me exactly what are the advantages that I will have with the Ethernet port?.

 

Thank you all reading this post.

[mjriley]

Why?Just run standard 5 pin DMX lines to the fixtures.The idea of ethernet ports on lighting desks is for expansion to say art-net to DMX converters and not straight to the lights.

[mac.calder]

75% of the "We need ethernet" is talking out of their backsides, and being a pain, just because they can.

 

The presence of an ethernet port is (as mjriley said) so that you can use ArtNet (or pathport or any one of a number of other protocols) to control the fixtures.

 

Many modern desks released in this day and age come with "8 universes - 4 physical and 4 through ethernet" or something along those lines - ie they have four DMX ports on the back of the unit, and the rest you can only access with ethernet.

 

However that does not mean you NEED fixtures that support an ethernet protocol. What you need is a "X" node (where X is the protocol you wish to use) - these devices take the ethernet signal, and spit out DMX.

 

The downside to using ArtNet et al is that the fixtures either need to have a little ethernet switch inside them (to give you an ethernet out on the fixture) or you need to mount a switch somewhere and run one cat5 cable to every fixture. Whilst cat5 is cheap, if you are not mounting a switch on every single bar, then the amount of cable you are using will quickly become quite expensive. That said, I just looked at the Robe170AT and it actually spits out the entire ArtNet universe on the DMX out - acting as an ArtNet node, which is really cool.

[indyld]

75% of the "We need ethernet" is talking out of their backsides, and being a pain, just because they can.

 

Agreed. There are a good number of fairly old threads on the BR discussing the merits (or not) of ethernet. Lighting control networking has many advantages for the future but the benefits of using CAT5 instead of DMX cable to send control signals to the moving heads of today are pretty hard to see.

 

Enttec are soon shipping a low cost DMX to ethernet box, which prompted the latest article at On Stage Lighting - DMX Over Ethernet...

 

The article looks at the current uses of networking in lighting and the pros and cons plus the future of stage lighting control . Hope you find it useful.

[lichtwicht]

Actually ESTA itself is stating on their homepage that new standards like ACN are not intended to replace DMX (ACN is more or less just straming DMX/RDM via network).

Finally there is no real enhancement when running ACN directly to fixtures instead converting it on stage back to DMX/RDM. DMX/RDM support the superior daisy chaining and XLR cables are less sensitive. While their are constructions like ADB Warp which have a built in hub for supporting network daisy chaining that cannot be seen as an equivalent solution as within long chains that causes delays and the chain only works when all fixtures have power.

But that doesn't mean that single RJ45 ports on fixtures are useless: In architectural it can save you lots of cables as you're able to hook up im existing house networks for sending the DMX data via network wihout the need to place converters next to the fixtures. Of course you can then also use the fixture as a 1-universe converter although you risk to lose control of the complete DMX line as soon as the 'converter' fixture loses power. Therefore I still prefer regular converters as their failure is much more unlikely.

But there nevertheless as mentioned above their are some scenarios it is handy to have a direct network in. But don't start throwing your DMX cabling away, you'll need it for some years despite upcoming network protocols like ACN.

[Richard Bunting]

We are about to buy 575 moving heads and now we are really considering the fact of spending some more money for the ones with Ethernet on them

 

WOW !! Five hundred and seventy five moving heads - how big is that venue? and how much power do you have?

[dunk_1984]

We are about to buy 575 moving heads and now we are really considering the fact of spending some more money for the ones with Ethernet on them

 

WOW !! Five hundred and seventy five moving heads - how big is that venue? and how much power do you have?

 

I imagine the OP is referring to ROBE Movers:

 

http://www.robe.cz/default.aspx?contentid=...b2-3e356457ee73

 

There appear to be 6 different [current] versions of the 575's.

[HobitLight]

Or a Martin MAC 575 Krypton?

 

EDIT: Added link

[beamwalker]

In a recent bid I've seen that the light designers choose Martin, HES and Robe because they have full Ethernet port on their fixtures. They had less budget and were going to buy PR until the LD's told them that in order to use Wholehog, Gran ma or any other top of the line lighitng console they needed Ethernet port on the fixtures. I've checked the specs of the other PR moving heads including the most expensive ones and they still don't have it. Is that important the Ethernet port? We are about to buy 575 moving heads and now we are really considering the fact of spending some more money for the ones with Ethernet on them ( to be more specific we were gonna buy the Robe's 500AT but now we are thinking of putting more money and buy the electronic balllast version wich has the Ethernet port ).

I will appreciate if somebody tells me exactly what are the advantages that I will have with the Ethernet port?.

 

Thank you all reading this post.

 

As far as I'm aware the ethernet ports are really there for future use to my knowledge Whole Hog, Gran Ma etc out put ethernet to their data processors and they spit out DMX from their well unless they have changed in the last few months. one day you might be able to run everything ethernet but I think most fixtures you buy today will be old and broken long before you need worry. At worst use art net control boxes to give you DMX and save your money now

[peter]

IIRC you can use some of the Robe fixtures as a breakout on an Artnet system (ie connect the desk to the fixture via ethernet, then use the DMX-Out on the fixture to get 'real' DMX out of the ethernet. Sounds like a reasonably cost-efficient way of doing it if you have the fixtures anyway.

[maeterlinck]

If you have the money to spare then why not go for the electronic version anyway? Network oddities aside, you'll get a lighter, cooler running and more efficient unit. If incoming LDs then really want to stick a network cable in to the light then they can, but really I think we'll see wire free control taking over from cabled once we 'borrow' more ideas from the computer industry...

[mac.calder]

but really I think we'll see wire free control taking over from cabled once we 'borrow' more ideas from the computer industry...

 

 

HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!

 

The technology for wireless DMX has been around for ages - there is a reason it really hasn't taken up widespread use, and that is that wireless technology is NEVER as reliable as a wired technology.

 

The only time I see wireless as an acceptable solution is when you physically cannot get DMX to the unit. Anything else boarders on lazyness. After all, you have to run power anyway, DMX is not that much harder to run.

[Andrew C]

To borrow an old saying from the noyze boyz:-

 

A $2000 radio mic system may be very nearly as good as a $10 cable.

[maeterlinck]

It's always fun to make sweeping statements on the Blue Room and start the stop watch...

 

Never is a very strong word. Indeed at points in history people have thought other people would never do things that those people now do. Think IBM chairman on the dawn of the personal computer for instance.

 

Anyways, wireless technology is an incredibly fast changing technology field, we in the entertainment world are usually some way behind that. In fact there will be technology all around everyone all the time that works with wireless communication. From phones, TVs, computers, (and the massive systems behind them) to simple things like a digital thermostat for a home boiler.

 

mac, I can't help but agreed that running an extra cable is not that much more work, but that's an extra cable to each area, running in and out of each fixture in that area, I don't need to explain DMX but it is a decent amount of extra work. Now move one of those fixtures and the whole thing starts again. Surely better where you hang the light give it power from the easiest route and let it get control wirelessly. Maybe this isn't at a stage to happen just yet but I'm fairly sure it will.

 

And Andrew would they be the same Noise Boys that probably haven't used a wired mic for a vocal performer in years and a wondering what to do with all their old wedges?

[Andrew C]

And Andrew would they be the same Noise Boys that probably haven't used a wired mic for a vocal performer in years and a wondering what to do with all their old wedges?

It is an OLD saying, but still holds quite a lot of weight. I will freely concede that there are applications where the disadvantage of the wireless systems (reliability, risk of interference, batteries etc) are outweighed by the flexibility of not having a cable. I'm sure that once the wireless DMX kit becomes wider spread (and cheaper), the break-even point will shift and we'll all start using it in certain applications. Perhaps a ballroom with lots of tables and nowhere to run cables, mobile pieces of scenery, and I'm sure you can think of others.