More new desk info please

[v8dve]

Given the choice of a secondhand Fat Frog or Avolites 96, which would you choose? I do mainly band lighting and a bit of theatre work, using generics and up to 6 intelligent lights.

 

Not having previously used either desk, both do training courses which is a must, and are similar in price if you include a flightcase.

 

I did use the search function, but only found comparisons to Avolites Pearl, which were useful.

 

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

regards

 

David

[gareth]

I guess you're looking at the AC Lighting list, then!

 

Bear in mind that the Sapphire is ex-rental, and is therefore likely to have been used and abused over the years - whereas the Fat Frog is ex-demo, and the most abuse it's likely to have seen is being put in and out of the back of a sales rep's car and is therefore likely to be in much better condition.

 

I'm not really an Avo man, so I'm not too familiar with their older consoles - but would I be right in thinking that the older Sapphires (96, 97, etc.) had a Rolacue? If so, then effectively you'd be getting an older Pearl on steroids. I'm not sure, though, how far you can take the older consoles in terms of software upgrades, so you might get 'stuck' at a level of development from a few years ago. With the Fat Frog, however, it's a current model so you can keep it bang up-to-date.

 

The Frog would be more portable (smaller, lighter console). Also, the Sapphire would be overkill if you only ever use a small quantity of generics (the Fat Frog can only handle 48) and half a dozen movers.

 

It's horses for courses, really. If it's a console which you'll mainly be using yourself, rather than dry-hiring, get the one that you feel most comfortable programming.

[sam.henderson]

Only having minimal experiance with Avolights products (but loads with frogs) I would say this;

 

You mentioned Training Courses, I doubt you will need any if you choose the Fat Frog,. It is a very easy and quick desk to pick up. Like Gareth said once you load the latest update as well you will have even more functionality from it.

 

Its really nice desk and I swear by It but I know Avo's are good for other things.

 

Why don't you have a play you can download the OLE (Offline Editor) from the Zero 88 Website in the downloads section. You can also get the Manual from there (which is very easy to understand). You could also check out the Frog Support Forum and ask queestions on there. Potassium Neuf (Z88 Rep) I sure will also beable to provide much assitance.

 

The Frog is a good desk and it gets my vote,

 

Sam

[gareth]

The Frog is a good desk and it gets my vote

Well, of course it gets your vote, because of you

Only having minimal experiance with Avolights products (but loads with frogs)

and therefore not really being in a position to objectively compare the pros and cons of both!

 

I'd have to disagree with your comments about training, too. For anyone coming to a new desk for the first time, some initial training from someone who knows the console back-to-front and inside-out is invaluable - that way, you can get a grasp of the basics of the desk's operation really quickly, which is something which might well take a lot longer if you just bash away at it on your own. The quicker you master the basics, the sooner you can get out there earning money with your desk - and the sooner you can start delving deeper into the console and getting a handle on the more advanced operations.

[sam.henderson]

Also, the Sapphire would be overkill if you only ever use a small quantity of generics (the Fat Frog can only handle 48) and half a dozen movers.

 

Actually the Frog has the ability for 12 movers and like you said 48 generic channels (in wide mode- nb. Preset Opperation can still be done in wide mode)

 

Sam

[sam.henderson]

I'd have to disagree with your comments about training, too. For anyone coming to a new desk for the first time, some initial training from someone who knows the console back-to-front and inside-out is invaluable - that way, you can get a grasp of the basics of the desk's operation really quickly, which is something which might well take a lot longer if you just bash away at it on your own. The quicker you master the basics, the sooner you can get out there earning money with your desk - and the sooner you can start delving deeper into the console and getting a handle on the more advanced operations.

 

I suppose this depends on how you prefer to learn. I find it easier to give the instruction manual a quick read and then just have a play arround (within reason so I don't break anything) where as I know some people would prefer to study the manual closly and then have a training course etc. etc. If I was trying to learn how to use a Hog 3 or Grandma desk I know I would go down the training route but not for the frog. Thats just personal preferance though

 

Sam

[gareth]

Also, the Sapphire would be overkill if you only ever use a small quantity of generics (the Fat Frog can only handle 48) and half a dozen movers.

 

Actually the Frog has the ability for 12 movers

Yes, I know how many movers the Fat Frog can handle - but if you read the original post in this thread the OP clearly states that he'll only need, and I quote, "up to 6 intelligent lights", which is the point I was making. I never said that the Fat Frog could only handle 6 heads - just that that's all the OP said he needed to drive. Try reading things properly before replying to them, Sam.

[sam.henderson]

the Fat Frog can only handle 48) and half a dozen movers.

 

Umm, Not what it sounded like when you read the post :P Just tying to keep the original Poster correctly informed so he does not get confused.

 

Sam

[Bryson]

The Sapphire 96 has a Rolacue - but lacks a shape generator or any of the nice quick pallettes of the Sapphire 2000.

[Rowan]

I would suggest the Sapphire, They are easy to programme, you will pick it up in a matter of minutes. They are quite easy to fix if they break, and the new parts are all available from Avo. Having used both desks, in my opinion the frog doesn't get a look in. Avolites are not perfect, but I would highly recommend them.

[gareth]

the Fat Frog can only handle 48) and half a dozen movers.

 

Umm, Not what it sounded like when you read the post :P Just tying to keep the original Poster correctly informed so he does not get confused.

The only one likely to be confusing him is you, Sam.

 

if you only ever use a small quantity of generics (the Fat Frog can only handle 48) and half a dozen movers

Note the brackets, and the effect that they have on the meaning of that sentence. The OP wants to run a small quantity of generics, of which the Fat Frog can only handle 48. He also wants to run half a dozen movers. Which part of that sentence are you mistakenly reading as implying that the Fat Frog can only run 6 movers?

 

To expand on my earlier point regarding the intended use of the desk ... if you're dry-hiring, you should also think about where you're intending to pitch the desk. For small school or am-dram hires, the Frog probably has more appeal by virtue of its simplicity of operation. For corporate and concert work, though, the Avo will probably stand you in much better stead because that's what a lot of LDs and operators are used to.

[sam.henderson]

The only one likely to be confusing him is you, Sam.

 

And how exactly would I be doing that then, Gareth?

 

I think we should both drop it and get back to the matter in hand

 

Sam

[kalmatthew]

I have never used a Saphire but have used both a D4 and a Pearl, I also use a Fat Frog on a regular basis. I like the Pearl alot and all the avo desks are lovley, however they are very much geared towards movers and lots of generics. If all you are using is a small amount of movers and <48 Generics then I would say the Fat Frog is your Best bet.

[SparkySteve]

The only one likely to be confusing him is you, Sam.

 

 

 

And how exactly would I be doing that then, Gareth?

 

I think we should both drop it and get back to the matter in hand

 

Sam

 

 

 

here here sam, I know I have been critisised in the past for making personal comments but I could be getting Confused here but that certainly sounds like a certain personal attack on you from a Mr. Hughes.(not just that quote, by the way, the previous poists are all abit dodgy)

[v8dve]

Thanks everybody for your contributions, you answered my thoughts by them both being good desks in their own right, particularly with regard to:

 

Ease of use

Size, for transportation

Servicing

Robustness

Acceptance within the field

 

 

Probably easiest way to conclude would be to hire both and see which one fits the application.

 

David