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Sub Groups


RoyS

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Hi all,

I have just upgraded from a 16-2 to a 32-8-2 desk (principally for the extra monitoring possibilities) and do sound for a variety of bands, some with horn sections, keys, etc. What are the opinions on what to put into the 8 sub groups?

 

Many thanks, Roy

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Many Most desks will not let you route to 2&3 as a stereo pair. :) - I almost said "all analogue" but that would be asking for trouble!

 

There are lots of ways of using groups. I like effects on a subgroup, if there are no mute groups.

 

You mention brass & I'd probably give a group or pair of groups to them, but it depends what else is happening, and even two bands with the same line up may benefit from you using the groups in a different way.

 

Compressing groups rather that individual instruments can be a useful thing sometimes.

 

A simple set up to start with until you get confident to change things about could be:

 

1&2 Drums & percussion

3&4 Bass, Guitars & Keys

5&6 Brass

7&8 Vocals

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The answers to this question are almost limitless... It depends on the band lineup, how you like things laid out on the desk etc... I personally try to have a groove group which has kick, snare and bass but thats just me!

 

Basically, send any group of channels that you are going to want to change the level of while maintaining their overall relationship with eachother to a group - then its moving one fader (or two if stereo) instead of trying to juggle 12 drum mic faders all at once

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It depends somewhat on what console you are talking about. Not all consoles with 8 physical groups are useful as 8 groups. What do you have?

 

Mac

 

The desk in question is a Soundcraft K2.

 

Roy

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The answers to this question are almost limitless... It depends on the band lineup, how you like things laid out on the desk etc...

 

Very true.

 

I usually:

 

1 Lead Vox

2 Backing vox

3 Lead Guitars

4 Backing guitars ( any acoustics just go to L+R)

5 Keys

6 Brass / Keys stereo of required

7 Drums Lefty

8 Drums Righty

 

I like to pan the drums a little, hence 7&8 for the kit.

 

But it really depends on the band in question. The point is, that I find the sup-groups useful. After all, we could just send everything to L+R, adnd then have a sh**t load of channels to manage.

 

This is the point of the sub-groups in a live sound environment, GROUPING, allows you to manage overall sections, rather than each channel.

 

You said the new desk was handy for the monitoring.... We don't use the sub-groups for mons, that's left to the aux sends, where each channel is available to be mixed for each individual monitor mix. Using the sub-groups will leave you with little individual (channel) level control. So monitor mixing with this approach will be tedious.

 

Hope this helps. :)

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Just a heads up on using effects when using subgroups...

 

If you're using a vocal reverb and change the level of the vocal with the group fader, you'll change the wet/dry balance unless the FX return is also routed to that group. If the FX is shared between several different sources, you can't really win.

Unless you have VCAs of course :)

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Just a heads up on using effects when using subgroups...

If you're using a vocal reverb and change the level of the vocal with the group fader, you'll change the wet/dry balance unless the FX return is also routed to that group. If the FX is shared between several different sources, you can't really win.

Unless you have VCAs of course :)

Agreement, Tip: if you have not got VCAs and use specific FX for: Snare+drum or Vocals and these are grouped add the the FX onto the group mix NOT onto your main L©R mix out; that way the FX level wll ride with the group master, (Note that some FX are stereo panned and you will therefore need a  1+2 (L+R); 2+3... as mentioned by others.)

 

PS some analogue desks (Yamaha GA series) allow allocation of some (pre) auxiliaries to the Groups, they are therefore useful for Monitors with slider controls.

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