Scaffolding

[Bencouchtechie]

Hi, what do people think of scaffold staging and are any qualifications/training needed to erect a scaffold stage as I am thinking of buying some.

[paulears]

I can't think of any good reason for trying to make a stage from scaff. It's long winded, time consuming, often wobbly, ugly, unkind to floors, incredibly heavy, really difficult to test - load wise, unacceptable in many venues, too close to the construction industry to avoid their rules, and difficult to tinker with once up.

 

Steeldeck or the more modern alloy products from plenty of manufacturers is much less trouble. A flat deck with 4 scaff tube legs. Even with this kind of product, the legs are a total pain to store and transport, so I'd be looking for something even lighter/simpler if I was buying new. I wouldn't touch home brew scaff stages.

[Bencouchtechie]

ok then, so steel deck staging then?

 

it wouldnt be for indoor use, it would be for fetes and events like that.

[paulears]

Before you go to far into buying staging - have you considered what you will transport it in. You don't get many bits of it in a vehicle driven on a new type UK licence. traditional Steeldeck weighing in at more than 70Kg each not including the legs!

[Bencouchtechie]

yea I have a transit "tipper truck" at my disposal to transport it, when needed.

[adamharman]

I can't think of any good reason for trying to make a stage from scaff. It's long winded, time consuming, often wobbly, ugly, unkind to floors, incredibly heavy, really difficult to test - load wise, unacceptable in many venues, too close to the construction industry to avoid their rules, and difficult to tinker with once up.

 

Have to disagree with you on a couple of points there paul.

 

The main reason I can see is it's infinately more flexible, the penalty for which is the extra time to put it up.

 

If it wobbles, it's not been built right. It's common practice to build scaff up to a 2 or 3 storey building before needing to tie it in to the building so there's no excuse for something a few feet high to wobble!

 

I've never found steeldeck particularly aesthetically pleasing either, but that's easily solved by a bit of black cloth.

 

I'm not sure what a section of steeldeck weighs, but from what I remember, it's somewhat heavier than a 21ft steel scaff tube which is the heaviest single item you can get since ladder beam has become only available in ali.

 

The main issue I see with it is insurance, unless you've done a scaff erection course. My PLI as a builder covers me to erect scaff for my own use but not for other people to use it. That's all I need so I haven't enquired about the cost of more insurance. I think the basic course only tells you how to erect what would normally be used for construction. Not sure what the minimum qualification is to design specials.

[Bencouchtechie]

cheers, I will have a look around, I like the fact that scaffolding is relatively cheap aswell.

[kerry davies]

Unless you have access to a decent structural engineer then steer clear of scaff stages. An active human loading on a performance stage demands pretty well designed, erected and certificated scaffolding, and so should any EHO. It is a lot more complicated than normal building-site staging. ( I am presuming you know about the latest demountable structures HSE info?)

 

http://www.steeldeck.com/ or http://www.litestructures.co.uk/litedeck.htm or http://www.alistage.co.uk/ will give you some idea of unitary staging and there are others (my fave right now is Wangos http://www.wangos.com/ ) but even these all have method statements you must follow. They are also ever so much quicker to build/de-rig/transport and look a great deal better in nearly all cases. Please don't try to reduce costs by using some of the cheaper indoor staging available, it isn't suitable, and you will also need some form of cover for any open backed truck.

 

Other than that there are plenty of reputable companies specialising in the hiring and erection of stages, some of whom concentrate on the types of event you mention.

[Seano]

I can't think of any good reason for trying to make a stage from scaff.

 

That depends what you mean by 'stage' and what you mean by 'scaff' I suppose. I wouldn't touch tube and clip with a bargepole for staging, but all of the larger outdoor stages (mobiles aside) are based on 'system' scaff. Edwin Shirley Staging use RMD Kwikform, Stageco use Layher and Star mostly use Cuplok.

 

Not that its a good idea for the OP, necessarily. Which brings me to the first post:

 

are any qualifications/training needed to erect a scaffold stage as I am thinking of buying some

To erect some under supervision? No, not really, other than common sense and a strong back.

To own the company? Above all, experience. Maybe you should think about getting some work with a reputable staging company for a while, see how they do it.

[Pete McCrea]

I'd second Seano's comments regarding getting some time with a staging co to see which system you feel would best suit you.

 

The other consideration would be subhire ability. If there is a local hire co that has say 20 Litedeck, and occasionally hires additional staging in, having the same kit as them can generate you additional revenue when they run short and vice versa. Having a product that no uses locally can mean a lot less cross hire work, or having to go further a field when you run out.

 

Personally I'd prefere to see a Litedeck/Steel deck stage for a smaller event rather than a scaff built one. Not saying it's any better worse, but if they were the same price I'd prefere the purpose designed product.

[paulears]

I'll explain what I mean by wobble - I didn't mean the support structure, but the top surface. Scaff seems happy to have planking style top surfaces that are strong and weighty - but they usually spring. People acting, singing or dancing need a smooth, solid surface without bounce. My own experiments with self-constructed structures were quite sound and successful, but creaked, bounced and wobbled when people walked on them. Trying to fix 18mm ply to the top eventually involved lots of shims, clips and clamps - coach bolts and other time consuming hardware. The metal part is really strong - perching bits of timer on top is much more difficult. We have the side of our fly tower scaffolded at the moment - it's paining time - and being on the end of a pier, in an exposed environment it's very substantial - but the decking springs like mad. Perfectly safe with steelies, but not something to perform on. (Although the view wold be great!)

[Bencouchtechie]

ok, I'll have a look around and I'll try and tag along with a staging company if I get the chance to, see how it all works.

[PhilT]

The main reason I can see is it's infinately more flexible, the penalty for which is the extra time to put it up.

 

How flexible do you want a stage to be? Surely a good selection of various steeldeck sizes (you can get custom sizes too) and various leg lengths (or a good chop saw) and you're away. Plus you're also using 'staging' to build a stage rather than scaffolding, which isn't staging.

[Bencouchtechie]

it doesnt really have to be that flexible, it wont be used for any sort of dances or anything and will most probably be used for the same use everytime.

[paulears]

Then some rectangular modules of some kind would be far, far simpler. I suppose another comment really should be - do want to be a scaffolder? I'd suggest it's not hugely fulfilling work.