Speakers and some kit

[deranged-angel]

Hi All,

I know this sort of topic has been covered quite extensively but I couldn't quite find what I was looking for. I work in a University theatre and we have the following kit:

 

Desk: Mackie SR24.4-VLZ Pro 24 channel 8 bus live sound console

Speakers: Wharfedale LIXC15 300W

Speakers: Wharfedale LIXC15SB 600W

Amps: Yamaha P3500S 600W x2

CD player, MD player, DBX box.

 

Now, we have 2 venues that has the same make of kit but in one venue (Dimensions w=9.8 L=12.3, H =4.6m) we have 4x 300w speakers and 4x 600w speakers listed above.

The 2nd venue has 2 x 300w and 2 x 600w speakers and it's dimensions are: W=6m, L=10m, H=4.1m

 

When the kit was first installed, it was purely playback and the odd microphone and it worked well. Now, though, the course has incorporated "Popular music" where bands come in and blast the hell out of the speakers. We managed to blow 3 out of the 4 high frequencies in the larger venue and had to pay to get them replaced as our budget wouldnt cover us to buy new. We are now putting in a new bid and I wondered if anyone could recommend some good speakers to me. I need them for normal theatre playback but also that will cope with live music too. Could you also tell me if we would need new amps to go with them? The budget we would roughly be looking at would be around 8k-10k for speakers for both venues. It might be that we keep the subs as they seem to cope fairly well and just buy some new high/mid frequencies.

 

I hope this is enough information, if I've missed anything, please let me know.

 

Also, we have had some kit installed in another, very small space and I was wondering where people would normally buy CD players, DBX boxes etc from? I'm confident that now all the speakers etc are installed, I could put a flightcase together with the bits in and we have already bought the amps so just need a good supplier. I'm in Liverpool by the way.

 

Thanks,

Em

[MarkPAman]

I'm rather afraid that if "bands come in and blast the hell out of the speakers" then £2k is going to be on the low side for one venue, let alone 2. :) Is this bands performing or rehearsing (or just p#####g about)?

 

Oh & what do you mean by DBX box?

[deranged-angel]

The bands are performing. Part of the problem was the speaker placement. The subs were at the back of the venue sometimes masked by blacks and the band constantly wanted the volume cranking up. We've changed that but are still worried that the speakers just aren't capable of dealing with the peaks of sound produced by live music.

 

I see your point about the cost. I've just spoken to the authorities that be and they are willing to pay out more and spread the cost over the various departments of the Uni that use the space (the 2k figure was taken from our budget alone). I think they are finally understanding that paying out for new cones all the time is a total waste of money and that it isn't the drama dept that blow them!!! They've received a small about of money for equipment and are putting in a new bid which we'll hopefully get (wondering now if this is all a cruel dream!) From that info, we can up the budget from 2k to about 8-10k. Obviously, the cheaper the better but we don't want to shirk on quality. We want these speakers to last a long time as it's unlikely they'll pay out again for the next 100 years :)

 

DBX box - It's a "Driverack PA" – system EQ/crossover/dynamics processor/limiter

Does that help?

To be honest, it was installed and it's been set up by a company (dont think I'm allowed to say names!) and we rarely alter it.

 

As you can tell, I'm not really a sound person. If you could perhaps suggest the sort of wattage / ohms I would need then I could look myself but sound puddles me at the best of times :)

 

Thanks!

Em

P.S I've edited my OP with the new budget just so that anyone reading it will see the new budget instead of the old one!

[StevieR]

Looking at the spec for your amps which only put out 390w per channel at 8 ohms, I would reckon that your system is a little underpowered. As such, it it too easy to push the amps into clip to try to get enough from the system and, as a result, you fry some drivers.

 

It is all well and good looking for some more powerful speakers but unless you have amps rated correctly to drive these then you will hit the same problem again.

 

As to retaining your existing subs, I think these ones have an in-built passive cross-over and, as such, may not much up correctly with another manufacturer's top box. Personally, I would look at spending your cash on a complete system which you know is correctly matched.

 

Steve

[MarkPAman]

............ sound puddles me at the best of times :)

Strange expression! :)

 

We’ve approached your problem in a slightly different way. The theatre has its own system, consisting of (I think 6) smaller fixed speakers on individual outputs, and a larger movable system. The movable one uses powered speakers, which seems the best way of allowing flexibility in placement. The music department also has several different PA systems that are also portable, as many of our performances are done off site.

 

So what I’m suggesting is that you keep your existing speakers but invest in one good mobile system to use when the musos turn up.

 

As for specific products; when our theatre (about the size of your larger room) occasionally gets used for “rock” type performances, I’ll usually set up 2 Mackie SRM450 with 2 SWA1501 (all of which officially belong to the theatre) as FOH speakers and up to 4 SRM350 & 4 SRM450 as wedges. However, I’ve used almost double this amount & about half of it in the same space at different times. It all depends on the event.

 

Specs for the above speakers are all on line, the important bit (for volume) is, not the watts, but in very simple terms, efficiency x watts. But there are lots of other threads for you on this.

 

I see you budget has gone up, well done! I wish mine would. I still think a good mobile system would be a good idea though.

 

Also have a search for the Driverack PA on here. There seem to be two good reasons for not using one, they blow speakers & Behringer do a better, cheaper unit.

[Shez]

Also have a search for the Driverack PA on here. There seem to be two good reasons for not using one, they blow speakers & Behringer do a better, cheaper unit.

Just to clarify a little, if the Driverack is set up and used properly, it will protect your speakers and stop them being fried. If it's not set up properly, or if it's powered down before the amps are, that will contribute to your problems.

[david.elsbury]

If it's not set up properly, or if it's powered down before the amps are, that will contribute to your problems.

Or if you happen to lose power to the unit, e.g someone pulls the FOH power out accidentaly, or if you trip your breaker... you can possibly say bye-bye to your speakers...