paulears Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Today I went to PLASA, wanted to choose between two new sound desks - I want either a Soundcraft or A&H desk. 32 or 40 channel, probably the GL2800 series or the Soundcraft 'version'. I wanted to prod faders, try out switches and make my choice before ordering. It never occurred to me that neither of these people would have them on their stands. A&H had the monitor version, but that's all, and Soundcraft had no large format desks of any kind. Everybody had digital desks - in fact, so many they were all over the place. I can buy a Yamaha, but I don't want to. I want a big desk with knobs. I'm not ready yet to go small and neat. The Yamahas seem very nice, and I've had a 16ch version of the latest through my venue, and a larger one on a tour - but I want what I want. Midas did have some, but the cynic in me wonders if this was because they don't have and digital desks in the low to mid range (yet?) It as like PLASA a couple of years ago when lots of LXkit was missing, replaced by LED everything. At least in lighting there now seems a balance between led and non-led again. Any comments on any products similar to the GL2800 range would be nice - mute groups and at least 8 auxes, would be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.elsbury Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 GL2800 is nice but for me, 4 mute groups just isn't enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamchristuffin Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 I've only used a digital desk for one production, and loved it, but even so, at the moment I'd still choose an analogue. Firstly for the point that I 'like' being able to see everything at one (sweeping) glance, and secondly for the fact that anyone needing to do something can do so without needing prior knowledge of the mixer or the manual to hand. (However, this can lead to someone messing about with all my careful levels.) If you can afford it, the ML4000 is a lovely desk! However, so are all of A&H - barring the GL2400s(Quite a different tone to my first ever post, huh? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunk_1984 Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 GL2800 is nice but for me, 4 mute groups just isn't enough! Agreed, the GL2800 is a nice desk to use, and really is very practical and usable, as to the Mute groups, well it depends what you intend to use it for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6th Order Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 As a recent convert from A&H GL's to an LS9, the lack of a large number of knobs is more than made up for by the large numbers of lights! (They flash too ;) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDD Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 I'm not sure this is particularly relevant, but I'm about to take the plunge and try out a Yamaha M7CL-48 on my next show (musical). To be honest, I'm a bit nervous about it, as I won't really have time to learn it and faff around with it, whereas a nice analogue desk would just be case of set-up and run in a familiar way. I know they say that digital desks are easy to use and certainly from the few demos I've had it would seem so, and it really appeals to me. It's just first-time nerves I think!! Having said that, I'm also about to buy a new small mixer for everyday use (12-16 channels), but that will definitely be an analogue choice. At the end of the day, it's still preferable in my opinion to have everything laid out before you. Particularly also as a teaching tool in my case, as well as a functional roll-up-and-go mixer. However, that's not to say my opinions won't change after whatever experiences I have with the M7CL. I'm particularly looking forward to having all my compressors, gates, EQ and effects built-in with the digital desk, and programming like a lighting desk will be lovely! Considering I want to look at A&H's smaller analogue desks at PLASA tomorrow, it sounds from Paulear's post like I won't be able to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamchristuffin Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 The M7CL is an extremely easy digi mixer to use; helped along by the touch screen (doing away with the control methods for the LS9 and O3D). I've only had a very short play and an observation of a set up, but it is very good desk, if you have the time to enjoy it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveh Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 An ML4000 was on the A&H stand today. As a set in my ways knob man, I dunno if I want to convert to live with a digi, I've used a couple, from a PM5 down & really not felt comfortable. It's the intuative thing & lack of familiarity. That said, I had a play with an iLive today. Along with the O2R96 in the studio, that I wouldn't swop for post production work, I may in time become converted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted September 10, 2007 Author Share Posted September 10, 2007 The small ones are there - the ones with red ends - so you should be able to have a fiddle. Chris - We've had one in the venue using it for 6 or 7 weeks, and I don't want one. I've had plenty of fiddle time, and for plain and simple mixing it is nice. I'm quite used to 01s and had an 03 for a while - and quite liked that one. I still have a DMC1000 in the theatre, not used for anything. So I am not a digi virgin. I just have some unusual needs. One is that often two people will use the mixer at the same time. The screen on the new Yamahas is ok when sitting in front, but difficult from the sides. The way the current system works is that including the left and right output, we have 9 lines going back to the stage, and although it's quite possible to configure the digital desks to do this, I just hate layers. Some shows we do have complex monitor level changes and you can't do them and mix at the same time on one set of faders. So - I'm not sold yet. I guess I just want more of what I have, but I bet development funds are not going into more analogue designs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamchristuffin Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 I guess I just want more of what I have, but I bet development funds are not going into more analogue designs Out of curiosity, what do you have at the moment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waster Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Check out APB Desks Paulears, their not pushing the boudaries of analogue consoles but they are making very good quality ones at good prices, I'm going to have a chat to them tomorrow at PLASA. If you've got all your outboard and are happy with it and analogue desks meet your needs then why jump? Nobody needs hand holding on an A&H board or indeed most analogue boards, whereas an engineer might have mixed dozens of shows on a PM5 but may need lots of help getting going on a D5. As an aside, is the 2800 a large format desk? Features wise I wouldn't say so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted September 10, 2007 Author Share Posted September 10, 2007 Well - A&H consider them large format, but I know what you mean. As for APB they don't seem to have much of a UK presence and for me, I'd rather not be a pioneer on a new distributor deal and the price is more than I want to spend - but thanks ayway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waster Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 So they do, have just dug out a catalogue of theirs! Know what you mean about APB, I'm only interested in their mixwizard competitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 The A&H "red cheek" stuff is pretty much the existing line with a USB port and bundled software. It meets the needs of certain section of the market. In the "true" large format stakes, digital is the way to go. The Yamaha rep stated that they haven't sold any analogue PM series desks for about a year - all the large ones are now digital. I believe Soundcraft have dropped prices on some of their MH range. If I was looking for a largish desk, I'd consider the 'new' Crest desk - (actually it has Gamble preamps and gubbins from some of theprevious larger Crest desks) Soundcraft MH2/3/4, Allen & Heath ML4000/5000 (the 3000 is good but I really miss having VCA group allocation lights!). The £10k price point of several of the above desks is below M7CL money, and above the LS9. both offer more hardware in a small foootprint. In the cheaper end of the market, The GL range is still one of the best. It's not easy to get the digital desks down to this price point yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightsource Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 I'd go for the GL2800 Paul, without a moments hesitation. I have a 32 channel GL2800, and when looking at the purchase early last year, I compared it against Midas, Soundcraft and Mackie. None of the others at the time (and I don't think much has changed since) came close to the functionality of the GL2800, compared to the price. It is a great sounding console, and for me, the final selling point was the amount of inserts, wherever they may be (and they're everywhere), the matrix, and the 10 aux sends. Another point, you may not be aware of, is that there are more configurable options with this desk, you've just got to take the back panel off and configure the jumpers. There are only 4 things I don't like, after using it for a year and a half: 1: The 19" rackmount PSU has it's connector to the desk on the back. Surely logic would put it on the front! 2: Tle gooseneck lamps are 4 pin XLR, naughty! 3: The master faders (or all faders in general) move far too freely, and have little resistance. I've snagged the LRM faders a couple of times with the headphone lead, and deafened the audience. 4: Prefer to use input channels to return Fx, not keen on the 'dual stereo returns' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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