Budget Digital Crossover Options

[SteveAATW]

It's got a design flaw that given its application should have been and probably was found during prototype testing. Still it was put on the market with the flaw (presumably ignored or a fix discounted on grounds of cost), has been for ages and still no sign of a revision - a speaker 'management' system which can blow up HF drivers is not cricket!

[norty303]

Also whilst out in Magaluf a few weeks back I was sorting out a DJ stand which had a silver 1u speaker management, couldn't see a brand name on it but it had a USB port on the front panel, input lights at -40, -20 and 0db and a square black button on each channel, any ideas what it is?

 

Wasn't at BCM was it?

 

They've got a big Void install over there and they may have a test version of the forthcoming Digidrive v2.

 

There's a thread on speakerplans where Rog of Void announced it..

 

http://www.speakerplans.com/forum/forum_po...PID=87138#87138

[dbuckley]

why do you think its [the Driverack PA] evil steve? I have a few driveracks ,pa,260,480 and some xta and martin I'd say the 260 is best value for money

I find it somewhat difficult to comprehend that you have so much kit, and so much knowledge, and yet not know that the Driverack PA (that specific model, the others do not share this 'feature') is the most reliable destroyer of drivers ever produced...

 

Which is a pity, as if it was actually possible to use one of these in a rig it would be a great alternative to the DCX, as it is one of the few boxes with both a liked name and a price tag that puts it within reach of a step-up from the DCX. The 260 is both a great loudspeaker manager, and good value for money, but its a lot more money than a DCX.

 

On the topic of the DCX, if you have Smaarts and scope prints that show its bolleau, please post, I and I suspect many others would love to see them.

 

I finally think I've decided what I'm going to do with my dead DCX - I'll blow it up on bonny night :)

[Rob_Beech]

that's another thing that confuses me, I can get a great sound from a system with a DCX in it. Its amazing how other people can't, just shows that the DCX must be bad..............oh hang on.....

 

If you don't mind I'm going to take a unit that might not be 100% accurate but works absolutely fine and sounds fine and is half the price of the unit that has less features and destroys your HF if you are not careful (or something happens thats out of your control). My DCX's go out on dry hire stock with smaller systems to keep things protected more than anything else but also to provide crossovers where necessary, I cannot guarantee that the end user isn't going to switch the power to the DCX off before the amps, or switch it on after the amps, If I used the DRPA, my pocket would be lighter on purchase cost, and no doubt I'd have stock regularly coming back with no HF, what's worse, if it goes before their show, then you've got a problem on your hands. They know about this fault, they surely must have done before the first lot came off the line but even giving them the benefit of the doubt, this should have been sorted by now, one way or another.

I use omnidrives on the larger systems, they're more rider friendly and they are generally speaking a better unit, but the price reflects this.

 

Rob

[avdavesound]

I find it somewhat difficult to comprehend that you have so much kit, and so much knowledge, and yet not know that the Driverack PA (that specific model, the others do not share this 'feature') is the most reliable destroyer of drivers ever produced...

 

On the topic of the DCX, if you have Smaarts and scope prints that show its bolleau, please post, I and I suspect many others would love to see them.

 

I finally think I've decided what I'm going to do with my dead DCX - I'll blow it up on bonny night :)

I never really noticed because I ALWAYS! power the amps off first! I've 2 installed in a club and 1 on the road with a local rock band for the last 2 to 3 years! and not 1 driver or speaker has come back to me! my dcx is dead so I can't smaart it but I can in a few weekswhen my pa and 260 come off a job to do an a/b test might get another dcx to throw on the pile. berhinger are my get out of jail items!! I'll smaart them all in a few weeks

[Bobbsy]

I suspect that pretty well everyone who's posted in this thread is scrupulous about the power on/power off order. The trouble with the DRPA is that all it takes is a momentary loss of mains (something not unknown in pub, club and small festival environments) and they output their killer transient. I'm glad you've been lucky but enough people have been burned--literally--by the DRPA for it to have a very bad name in the industry. For the avoidance of doubt, it's worth stating for the record that this only applies to the Driverack PA; other dbx products are fine (but in a different price bracket).

 

Like Rob, my preferred speaker management unit is the Omnidrive and I'll spec them whenever the situation makes them appropriate. However, where budget is limited, I'll stand by my earlier post that the DCX is impossible to beat for the money.

 

Bob

[avdavesound]

How did you test the crossover performance.

 

So do enlighten us, what is so bad about them to justify the word crap? Because I can't find anything wrong with the one I have, and quality wise it seems to hold up rather well, I thought.

well the word crap may have been a bit harsh! all they are is ok I'd use them if there was nothing else at the warehouse to use but all I'm used to is xta, bss and dbx so they have a lot to live up to but I'm in the hire game if they where as good as everybody was saying they would be in everybody's racks and they would be spec'ed for gigs.

the drpa is way better value for money I think apart from the switch on surge everybody is saying. I done an a/b test a few years ago with the dcx (when it came out first) and the drpa and my opinion and many others opinion on the day the drpa won hands down on nearly everything apart from the laptop gui on dcx and none on the drpa. the dcx is loaded with extra features and bell and whistles but at the end of the day isn't the main thing sound quality? and the built quality 2 is alot

I had a turbosound lms d24 last year and I'd use a dcx over that no problem!! I hated it with a passion even thou it's made by xta(I think?) the presets on it for the turbosound stuff where all over the place! you had to put in alot of work into it to get it right.

the dcx is good for the money but for a few more quid the dbx is far superior in my opinon!!

 

:) :unsure: I'll send the 2 units and a few more through smaart and easera in a few weeks when they come back from a job. let me know what specific test ye would like to see first?

[Rob_Beech]

But they wouldn't be spec'd for the "big gigs" because its Behringer. They produce value for money entry level equipment. They're not in some peoples racks because its Behringer, they're not in other peoples racks because they can afford better, they're not in other peoples racks because they're NOT rider friendly. Getting something from nothing to being spec'd for larger gigs is a tricky job, especially considering the reputation Behringer has had in the past and often still has now because "my mates old works bosses son is a dj and he had some behringer stuff and it broke within 5 minutes" still floats around. I can't put any figures on it but I'd hazard a guess at a clear majority of the people who slag off behringer (and please note I'm not saying you are doing this I am just speaking generally) have NOT had any negative experience themselves with it, its all from a friend of a friend.

 

If a Merc breaks down, it's probably something to do with it being extremely advanced tecnologically, so thats ok, but if a B reg Sierra breaks down its becasue its a pile of crap.

 

Do remember that apart from an Aux on a mackie board going mid show, the only desks I've ever had fail on me (and it is my living not a part time thing) have been Midas, 3 of them to be precise.

 

 

 

Rob

[The Boogie Man]

:) I've got mostly Behringer gear AND a Sierra. :unsure:

[avdavesound]

But they wouldn't be spec'd for the "big gigs" because its Behringer. They produce value for money entry level equipment. They're not in some peoples racks because its Behringer, they're not in other peoples racks because they can afford better, they're not in other peoples racks because they're NOT rider friendly. Getting something from nothing to being spec'd for larger gigs is a tricky job, especially considering the reputation Behringer has had in the past and often still has now because "my mates old works bosses son is a dj and he had some behringer stuff and it broke within 5 minutes" still floats around. I can't put any figures on it but I'd hazard a guess at a clear majority of the people who slag off behringer (and please note I'm not saying you are doing this I am just speaking generally) have NOT had any negative experience themselves with it, its all from a friend of a friend.

 

If a Merc breaks down, it's probably something to do with it being extremely advanced tecnologically, so thats ok, but if a B reg Sierra breaks down its becasue its a pile of crap.

 

Do remember that apart from an Aux on a mackie board going mid show, the only desks I've ever had fail on me (and it is my living not a part time thing) have been Midas, 3 of them to be precise.

 

 

 

Rob

I know they wouldn't be spec'ed, some people (not on the blue room) think there the best thing since sliced bread. I just give them a smack on the head and they wake up. behringer are known for problems but there in the budget market, but some of the big companys need a good kick in the head to sort out bugs and gremlins on there new digital products. why release something when its not right? are we the consumer here to beta test them until there reliable? national tv station has an midas xl8 and they have nothing but problems with it! come on!! you would buy a small house for the price of it! I have 10 crown xti 4000 amps and they are constantly giving trouble loose ribbon cables, bugs. you name it. these should be sorted out in RnD.

behringer have saved me alot of times beacuse of the good stuff giving trouble. so don't want to slate them. I'd never spec them but there great as cheap backups!

[Bobbsy]

Stand by: Mangled analogy alert!

 

Far from being the "greatest thing since sliced bread", Behringer should be regarded as the "sliced bread of the audio market". They're not competing with the designer bakery loaves and their product will never (or at least rarely) be used to make a posh bruschetta in an expensive restaurant. However, sometimes all you need (or can afford) is a basic peanut butter sandwich and, for that purpose, Behringer sliced white is fine. You can spread it with butter and it keeps the filling off your hands.

 

Okay, enough with the mangled analogy. In the audio market...even the pro audio market...there is room for (and a need for) a Behringer. Here in the BR (and elsewhere) I frequently recommend their stuff when somebody wants budget gear...and almost always include a phrase along the lines of "not the best but great value for the money" which is how I see many of their products. If you have more money to spend you can certainly get better audio quality (and often better reliability) but, and this is a big but, you often have to spend significantly more for that improvement. Just as an example: I wouldn't spend the extra to get a Mackie mixer over a Behringer. They're both bottom-end mixers but, at least, Behringer is cheap!.

 

Like Rob, I think a fair amount of the negativity towards Behringer is based on a mix of "old news" (their early product WAS pretty dire) and uniformed hearsay. In my experience (and that of a number of people whose views I respect) Behringer gear made in the last four or five years has shown a marked improvement in build quality. The also seem to take customer service pretty seriously: their "Global Customer Services Manager" is a regular reader of alt.audio.pro.live-sound and is very approachable.

 

So long as "cheap" is part of the spec, most Behringer gear is as good as any and better than most.

 

Bob

[dan slv-tech]

Well...

 

I have some behringer kit sitting in my FOH rack namely 3 x composer pro and a valve compressor thing- no the compopsers are fantastic ok the gating on them is pretty basic but other than that the comps are great do exactly as they say they do,an the limiters are usable and for like £70 a unit can you beat it? however the tube compressor a pile of poo!! one channel has died just makes a loud hissy/screaming noise when you start compressing, other side is completely ok.

 

When I have a spare hour I shall take the thing apart and have a squint- ive spoken to lots of people re behringer and the consensus appears to be as said here before its value for money kit, pretty much does as it says- now behringer along with alto, and many others are pretty new in the LMS dsp maket so yes there will be bugs and problems, but its cheap compared to say an XTA (ive had one of these go funny on me too) so you get what you pay for- I know of a pro audio company who have a line array running off a behringer LMS- to me thats daft almost a false economy, why buy the line array in the 1st place?? possibly like driving a porshe towing a caravan :unsure: and it doesnt sound that great either :)

 

Incedently in my racks I have random kit based upon cost v quality, ie behringer comps, BSS gates, Yamaha EFX, BSS Eq, WE cant all afford XTA SIDDS, or Lake LMS so we buy what we feel is value for money- it would be pointless me buying a LAKE processor for rig my whether I could afford it or not- I wouldnt use it to its full potential and besides my DRPA does the job perfectly, which brings me on to the issue of the DRPA-

 

I personally have never had a problem with the "thumping on/off" but then I switch the DRPA on 1st and turn off last, however I have too experienced outages on power but as my amps shut the output off quick and go into mute before the screen barely has time to go out ive never had a problem, incedently if you turn a XTA graphic off or any pro kit before your sound system you will at some level get a thud go through the system, just a case of being careful, and switching on/off in the right order

 

 

dan

[Rob_Beech]

incedently (sic) if you turn a XTA graphic off or any pro kit before your sound system you will at some level get a thud go through the system, just a case of being careful, and switching on/off in the right order

 

Yes, that is correct, you will often get this thump across the system by switching things off in the wrong order, but that is fine for you because you know not to do this, as do most of the people here. The problem is when things go out as dry hire stock and the people using them DON'T know this, you can easily run into major problems.

 

Also, think about what happens when you do this. Switch off a desk or graphic and your LMS units crossover and limiters will do its job if necessary. The low thump goes to the subs which should cope with this fine a little pop to the mids and a crackle to the hi's. When you switch on the LMS and get this thump due to the poor design, it is just that, its just a thump. and this thump consisting of LF aswell goes everywhere, its the high level sound, and full range sound going to the HF drivers with no limiters to stop them that does the damage.

 

 

Rob

[paulears]

the dcx is a big ball of crap, it is good value for money,but the limiter, compressors, crossover are crap. I tested the slopes on the crossovers and it doesn't say what it says on the tin!

behringer have saved me alot of times beacuse of the good stuff giving trouble. so don't want to slate them. I'd never spec them but there great as cheap backups!

 

 

Not bad for a speedy 180! From ball of crap to great cheap backups in a few posts.

[Rich]

I have found the Behringer to be a vastly supirior to the Driverack PA. I bought the DRPA because I trusted the name and thought that I'd be better off with that than a Behringer unit. I found the sound quality poor, big midrange boost, unidifined highs (how can you make DE250s sound bad?), and not to mention the MASSIVE signal that it throws out when turned off. I flogged it and bought a Behringer. Instant improvement to the sound quality and with money I lost on the DRPA I would have been half way to a Behringer.

 

avsounddave: Maybe the crossover slopes do lie, but for that price you can't argue. What is for sure is that you can set a system up well with one but you might have to use your ears instead of relying on what you see in front of you. If you are going to do some analysis of the actual slopes, then be sure to do a comparison with the DRPA, I'd love to see the results.

 

Oh and by the way, well done with the football, good to see Dublin out.