Cost of running Hazers

[SteveAATW]

Ok this is probably a how long is a piece of string argument but...

 

I currently have (in a nightclub - 350 capacity room) 2 x Martin/Jem Magnum 2000 smoke machines underneath a podium. They give pretty decent coverage of the main area of the club. However they rely on DJs pressing the key on the Showcad midi controller every so often. With some its fine, others just seem to forget/ignore it. I've tried running time control cues but depending on the weather, time of year etc you can either end up re-creating the London fog or barely putting enough out.

 

With the smoking ban the atmosphere can get very clear very quickly if the DJs aren't putting smoke out and it sort of detracts from the overall atmosphere of the club.

 

So I'm inclined to think get a Hazer and have it running the whole time the clubs open. I appreciate the haze is nowhere near as thick as the initial burst from a smoke machine, but does it linger at a decent density much longer? We currently use about 10L of smoke fluid every 6 weeks, my only worry with going up to a hazer is that we'll use a lot more fluid and as it's more expensive to start with costs will start spiralling...

[Ynot]

As a rule, haze fluid does normally hang longer than fog, primarily because that's what it's been designed to do. The effects are obviously quite different. There are also fluids that are designed to hang for differing periods, so best to look at the manufacturer's data before buying.

 

As for the actual level of output, that can only be determined from use in your venue - maybe look at a short term hire of a couple or three of the popular units and test their performances over a week each....

 

Once you have a haze hanging, it probably won't take much to top it up every now and then, and many hazers do have an auto setting to do just that.

[Ike]

I'd go for a mineral oil hazer over water/glycol based smoke machine/hazer if you're after low cost of running. There have been plenty of threads discussing various hazers and as Tony suggests hiring before you buy is probably the way to go.

[Hambone]

I use a Unique Look hazer. Instead of billowing out huge amounts of haze periodically, I leave it on a low setting all night. Never need to touch it, unless doors get opened, etc. It puts enough haze in the air for the lights/lasers to refract off of, but hardly enough to see with the naked eye, and no chance of setting off smoke/fire alarms. It also makes the live video feed far clearer.

 

It uses very little fluid, too.

[niclights]

Water-based haze fluid hangs no differently than any other water based fluid. It's all the same. Mineral oil will hang much longer because particle is approx 1/20th size. The only difference is that haze machines are designed for constant output.

 

I am also going to recommend the Look Solutions Unique - it's cheaper than the Martin offerings and will do exactly what you want. I use one in a 700cap and one in 200cap room. I can get an even coverage in both on relatively low setting/consumption against powerful extraction system. The amount of fluid you use will of course depend on what level you need to run them at (mainly dependant on ventilation system) and how often you are open, but based on my experience I would say you will be using less fluid than you are now.

 

Mineral oil machines are much more expensive and easily produce the nicest effect. The big problem is they will coat everything in oil.

[SteveAATW]

At the risk of asking a stupid question - is the Unique mineral or water based? Had a look at the manual and data sheet and can't find any mention :)

[niclights]

Unique is water.

 

Typical mineral oil machines are ReelEFX DF-50, Swefog (identical design but with better components/easier to maintain), MDG (the best - uses CO2 instead of noisey compressor).

[SteveAATW]

Cheers, I'll have a look at the unique then - oil would have put me off, too many mirrors and lenses to clean as it is without having a film of oil all over them

[Paul Turner]

Unique is water.

 

Typical mineral oil machines are ReelEFX DF-50, Swefog (identical design but with better components/easier to maintain), MDG (the best - uses CO2 instead of noisey compressor).

 

Reel EFX now have a Non-Oil fluid for the DF50 hazer

 

please feel free to contact me off forum for more info.

[niclights]

So they do!

 

Hmmm. I'm intrigued how this works in a compressor-based machine. Previously the only non-heater glycol system I had seen was the Jem Hydrosonic which used (unreliable) transducers instead. I can't find any info other than their MSDS & switchover/purge instructions.

 

Presumably it just forces the water + glycol into the air just as with the oil. Would be interesting to see how well this works and the difference between it and the oil. Not that this makes much difference to the fact my DF-50 destroyed itself quite catastrophically.....

[Ike]

Presumably it just forces the water + glycol into the air just as with the oil.

That'd be the one, I put a bit in the Blue room Wiki on the subject a while ago.

[niclights]

Nice :)

 

But does it not surprise you that this would work? It's certainly the first time I've heard of water/glycol used like this, as opposed to ultrasonic vibration.

[Ike]

To be honest I've never tried to atomise anything other than water or oil before or even considered it but I'm now quite tempted to have a play next time I'm in the workshop.

 

Edit: It looks like the oil-less fluid is mostly Triethylene glycol (TEG) so it'll be interesting to see if the oily residue will be replaced with a sticky residue! I'm asuming that was the 'problem' they were trying to solve? :)

[niclights]

I thought that too. Until vaporised, glycol demonstrates very similar properties to mineral oil!

[toytown]

or even just get a timed chase sequence on showcad to run your smoke machine then as long as you get your timings right no problem.