Bryson Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 I need to replace our current Beyma-driven, unidentified manufacturer (poss. ASS?) monitor wedges (12" coaxial w/2" tops) with something a little more pleasant. Cheapish is good (I'm thinking low-end pro gear, not semi-pro) but I'm not sure beyond that. They would have to do a fair range of work...mostly Jazz, with some World, and even a bit of Rock. No thrash metal or similar, though. So, to sum up, I need a recommendation for a set of monitor wedges, 12" I reckon (not too big, can't take up all the stage) that will have enough detail and clarity for the Jazzers, but with enough punch for rock stuff as well. We'll be using Crest CA6 amps to drive them. Also, I'm looking at replacing our FOH boxes (bit more long-term, this one..) and was looking at some second-hand EV SX300s. (Again, driven by a CA6) Would these be ok with our EAW 2x15" subs? Or do any of you have any better ideas? We're running some ASS 12" boxes at present. (If you're unfamiliar with ASS, it's a bit of a built-in-the-shed type of make, but, particularly the FOH boxes, they've stood up well and sound pretty good...not sure if they exist anymore, though.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light Console Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 I have a pair of SX300's (sorry not for sale) which are very good speakers, I know that you can get bass bins for them in the same style as well. They used to fill a 117 seat venue without a bass bin, and the seating block below used to vibrate to all sorts of music. The speakers were flown from an LX bar <_< and ran from a C Audio GB402amp. They are also just the right shape to use as monitors as well! Thomann do some SX300's and some that look like them! I think they must get hold of old moulds to get to the low price they charge for the look alikes... Thomann PA listing Take me to the SX300 Hope this helped in some small way.. Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James C Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 I'm running a pair of SX300's (and sub, with the EV speaker controller) off a pair of Crown CE-1000 amps - more than enough to shake the plasterwork off the doorframes in our 100-seat venue, and fabulous clarity to boot. Don't claim to be much of a noiseboy, but I can't fault the SX300's. Do set aside a small fortune for mounting options, though! HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Need Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Hi Bryson, Ever considered going down the route of self-powered monitors?For example the SMART 12MA active wedge, fairly small and not a bad sound.. oh and cheap if you consider it has a built in amp. Ok, you have to run mains out to each monitor .................. but.......... Another reasonable range of cheaper wedges are the Yamaha, very cheap and oddly enough some of the 180w (ish) SM12ES version we use, actually sound much nicer than a 400w Beyma; brighter and crisper. Another one to look at if your budget allows would be the JBL MP415 (380w 2 way with 15" and Horn) As for the FOH boxes......... I just love the Mackie SRM450, or C300 if you don;t want to go along the self powered route. Personally, and yes I know sound is probably THE most subjective subject in our feild..... they knock the socks off the SX300. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Russell Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 The martin series of wedges are always popular, the LE200, whilst probably bigger than you are looking for is an industry standard second choice on most band riders, (The first choice being whatever is popular at the time), However the LE350 might do what you want, the JBL wedges are good for the money but don't sound great, although if you are looking at SX300's for FOH then they work quite well as a wedge, I don't know about the SX300 but the SX200 use to come with two feet adaptors that clipped onto the speaker and angled it for use as a wedge, at least if you go down this route then everything sounds the same. On the subject of self powered speakers I have never been keen on this, because if your amp inside a cabinet fails then you can't fix it in a hurry and are probably in for a large repair bill, at least if your amps are in a separate rack and one fails you can either hire another one short term or bodge your way around it. If you are going to use SX300's for FOH then I personally don't rate the matching EV subs much, however the EV eliminator subs aren't bad, the controller is worth buying even if you don't use the subs as it does level out the response of the SX300 it won't stop you blowing the speakers up as there are no sense connections but you can always hide it at the amp rack and use the gain control to stop any other operators killing your nice new speakers. This technique is probably the only reason that the four SX200's at my old school are still working (The gain is set at a but 12 O'clock), incidentally these four speakers fill a hall that seats about 1200 students for various uses, ok not brilliantly but good enough for Rock and Roll, (or Jazz if that's your taste)... Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Need Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 On the subject of self powered speakers I have never been keen on this, because if your amp inside a cabinet fails then you can't fix it in a hurry and are probably in for a large repair bill, at least if your amps are in a separate rack and one fails you can either hire another one short term or bodge your way around it.If you have 2 speakers plugged in to one amp, and the amp dies, you lose both speakers, if you lose an amp in a self powered speaker - you only lose that speaker. The Americans and Europeans are about 10 years ahead of us guys here concerning the use of self-powered loudspeakers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light Console Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 If you have 2 speakers plugged in to one amp, and the amp dies, you lose both speakers, if you lose an amp in a self powered speaker - you only lose that speaker. The Americans and Europeans are about 10 years ahead of us guys here concerning the use of self-powered loudspeakers, True, but if like me, most of the speaker's use is in a field as an outdoor PA system, running 30m more mains cable to the most remote speaker would be a pain. However, I realise this is not often a problem in theatres! I'll get my coat then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 True, but if like me, most of the speaker's use is in a field as an outdoor PA system, running 30m more mains cable to the most remote speaker would be a pain. However, I realise this is not often a problem in theatres! Or in my situation where I like to fly my speakers I prefer un-powered as they are always much lighter. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Need Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 Or in my situation where I like to fly my speakers I prefer un-powered as they are always much lighter. JamesMackie Unpowered C300 19.5Kgs (300w)Mackie powered SRM450 22.0Kgs (450w) 10 Flying points Much lighter ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 Mackie Unpowered C300 19.5Kgs (300w)Mackie powered SRM450 22.0Kgs (450w) 10 Flying points Much lighter Yeah, Very nice but I have a minor aversion to switch mode power supplies for PA amps and whilst it doesn't say so in as many words on the data sheet I can't beluieve it can be anything else :-) James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Need Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 Yeah, Very nice but I have a minor aversion to switch mode power supplies for PA amps and whilst it doesn't say so in as many words on the data sheet I can't beluieve it can be anything else :-)There is just no pleasing some people!!!! :P ;) :( I just love the sound of them. A company who bought EAW and RCF............ hmm....... If you like EAW then I think you'll like Mackie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topper Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 I've worked for a PA company that use a monitor system made by a company called Logic System as one of their 'cheaper' options... I've always found them to be reliable, useful boxes and come in three versions 12 & 1", 15 & 1" and 15 & 2"... I used the baby ones on a jazz festival last year (with very little complaining - jazzers!!) and had the honour of doing monitors for Mr Chesney Hawkes using the 15/2" just the other week! I don't think they're too pricey (otherwise this company probably wouldn't be using them!) and I know that the same manufacturer also makes FOH kit too that would compete with the Sx300's... Their web address is www.logic-system.co.uk - let me know what the prices are on them if you do take a look, I'd be interested to know too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 There is just no pleasing some people!!!! I just love the sound of them. A company who bought EAW and RCF............ hmm....... If you like EAW then I think you'll like Mackie. Yeah, I've come across them a few times in the wild, and sometimes they have sounded nicer than some others in the same ball park (Eon's etc.) I have also heard them used very very badly. However when I was looking to buy recently they were completly out of my budget. ;) James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Yeah, Very nice but I have a minor aversion to switch mode power supplies for PA amps and whilst it doesn't say so in as many words on the data sheet I can't beluieve it can be anything else :-) The merits of switch mode power amps have been much debated (and argued over!). Just a few points: QSC became one of the world's biggest amp manufacturers as a result of its PowerLight range of switch-mode amps. Lab Gruppen, another manufacturer of of switch-mode amps, are considered some of the best amps in the business. Their products are rebadged by L-Acoustics and Martin Audio, two of the highest-regarded speaker manufacturers. The C-Audio Pulse range (switched mode again), now sold under the Crown brand, have been adopted by a number of large PA companies. I too was slightly suspicious of switch-mode amps at first, but the simple truth is that they would not have achieved market penetration at the very top end of the sound business if they were not up to the task, both in terms of sound quality and reliability. Whether the ones in the SRM-450 are any good or not is a different matter altogether - but if Paul likes it, I'm sure it is OK. One thing I would point out is that this is an active design with separate power amps for the LF and HF drivers. Generally speaking, active crossovers give better performance than passive ones. Always bear in mind the price/performance ratio when it comes to loudspeakers - the SRM-450 is very cheap compared to many other speakers, powered or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 I too was slightly suspicious of switch-mode amps at first, but the simple truth is that they would not have achieved market penetration at the very top end of the sound business if they were not up to the task, both in terms of sound quality and reliability. Surly the fact that they are inherantly lighter is also a factor, as truck loading, truss loading and reggers backs are all important considerations in both install and touring operations, My aversion however probably stems from the fact that I hate trying (and trying being the operative word ;) ) to fix swich mode power suplies. Conventional ones, dispite being heavier are much nicer to fix. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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