Advice Please? GENESIS effect needed!

[bricummo]

Hi peeps,

 

Was wondering if I could pick your brains?

 

I'm in a tribute band and need to create an effect that Genesis did in their old concerts.

 

I'm not sure how to post pics on here but it is basically a 'cage bar' effect of about 100 very narrow parcans coming down from the ceiling to the floor.

 

I think they may have even used aircraft landing lights?

 

I only need them in white and I only need them to come on together and off, no chasing or DMX.

 

We also may have the problem of mounting them on ceilings etc. so I was thinking of putting them on the floor front of stage?

 

We have been using pinspots but they're just not quite bright enough.

 

I have done a it of research and the only things I can find are Howie or Altman battens or maybe a load of surface mounted Birdyes with MR16 bulbs in, I think you can get them as narrow as 8 degrees if I'm right?

 

Any advice on how to or NOT to do it?

 

Greatly apprectiated,

 

Brian.

 

PS. Found some links to the images here -

 

http://www.genesis-movement.co.uk/photos_m...land81/81_3.JPG

 

http://www.genesis-movement.co.uk/photos_m...brstage4_82.jpg

 

Hope this helps.

 

Cheers Brian.

[smeggie]

Hi.

 

Bit of a shot in the dark, but take a look at Svoboda lights - they provide a 'wall' of white light but if you pick your angles carefully you may be able to produce a similar effect of a cage?

 

From the looks of the image, take a look at Digital Light Curtains- I know they're not cheap, but they do a very similar job of replicating the image posted above. Both units are stocked by most hirers in the UK so ask around and you should be able to try them out

 

if not that then I'd go for the howie battens.

 

Sorry to not be more usefull

 

AC

[Jivemaster]

There were some PAR46 12v100w lamps like pinspots. so 3x the power and narrow beam. But PAR46 has been out of fashion for years. Look at 12v 100w PAR36 they are narrow beam and bright but they get HOT in use and cannot usefully be gelled due to the heat in the beam. PAR36 cans should be easy to find, but you might need silicone or better heat resistant cable and Nickel spades.

 

12V lamps can be individually transformer fed but would usually be series wired, That's 20 or 21 off the mains and that's 8 - 10 amps off the mains. You could consider a group of series fed lights running off a transformer.

 

The Original rig would prob have been 250w 28v ACLs in series in groups of eight.

 

CLASS disco shop on Garrat Lane London SW?? did supply some Power spots they were a PAR46 can with 100w transformer and a truck lamp and reflector -- Actually very good very narrow beam ideal for mirrorballs. As they were mains operated you could use the number you need, as long as the truss will carry all the transformers!

 

 

If you are offered 450w 28v ACLs do NOT take them unless you realise how hot they get they will ignite paper at 5 metres They are for fast jets and NEED 100mph airflow!

[DaveBeattie]

I have done this on separate occasions in three ways:

 

PAR 36 Pin spots

 

PAR 36 Cans with 4509 lamps (12v 100W)

 

Cantatas with "laser dots" Gobos

 

Hope this helps

 

Dave

[niclights]

Wow, you can get 450W/28v? Cool!

 

I'm sure the best way to achieve this is long nose 36's loaded with 250W/28v.

[gnomatron]

maybe par 64s with raylight reflectors? I've never used them in anger but they might fit the bill.

[Stu]

I presume this is for In The Cage?

 

You don't say what size stage your lighting but I have found success with AR111 lamps which go in Par 36s - they run at 12v and come in 100w 4º (it may be 8º at 100w) versions which are very bright and very narrow! You could run these in pairs on 200w 12v transformers, something I have done quite successfully. You may find even the 50w version would be bright enough.

 

You could also use Light Curtains that take Par 56 lamps, and lamp them up with VNSP 300w Par 56 lamps, or perhaps even the new Osram AluPAR 56 NSP 8º lamp which is lighter and 10% brighter.

 

It's all relative to what the rest of the rig is to how bright it'll look, and also how much smoke there is on the stage I suppose.

 

HTH

Stu

PS. My favourite In The Cage lighting moment is from the 83 tour when all the VLs snap on pointing straight down in O/W, then scan up to Phil when he resumes signing upstage of his drum kit - classic!

[bjkered]

Bit of History but what the heck

 

Worked on one of the shows, where this effect was the finale. Bradford St Georges Hall 1984 Genesis "small hall tour"

 

Believe they were Landing Lights.

 

Still one of the best bands and show ever seen. Genesis in a 1000 seat hall no video screens thank goodness what a night.

 

Claim to fame and only injury was at the get out had an accident and bass bin removed a finger ( no injury laywers in those day's)

 

Still a great night and got paid

[bricummo]

Wow guys!

 

So many helpful replies! And I can't believe one of the original crew is on here?!!!!

 

It is for 'In the cage/Los Endos' and at the moment we're only playing large club venues/small theatres so power consumption is a problem.

 

Also Stu, at the moment we'd only be using them across the front but eventually would love to create that hexagon ala '83

 

We also had to recreate the 'Afterglow' effect shown here -

 

http://www.genesis-movement.co.uk/photos_m...20Afterglow.JPG

 

Amazingly we get a pretty good effect using 6 standard halogen 'security' type lights with pink gels on and LOADS of smoke!! :)

 

I kinda know what I know about lights, but there's a lot of what you guys say that goes straight over my head, but what I'm looking for is say lengths of wood or metal with lights mounted on which don't take up a lot of room or power and can be expanded or minimised to suit the room size if that makes sense?

 

We are also running some side floor parcans, and 12 I-solution moving heads, (8 250S, and 4 250W) so we're pushing the power in smaller venues as it is.

 

I really appreciate all of your help guys and if you fancy having a nosey at my attempts with our old Abstract VRX lightshow, take a peek here -

 

http://www.carpetcrawlers.com/photographs/...0106/index.html

 

Oh forgot to mention our old friend, the legendary Martin rainbow , see if you can spot it ** laughs out loud **!

 

Kind regards,

 

Brian

[Stu]

I kinda know what I know about lights, but there's a lot of what you guys say that goes straight over my head, but what I'm looking for is say lengths of wood or metal with lights mounted on which don't take up a lot of room or power and can be expanded or minimised to suit the room size if that makes sense?

The Par 56 light curtains I was referring too can be seen here. They do a 9 lamp version with the 12v lamps in series, or 12 lamp version with 4 240v lamps paired to 3 circuits (each circuit would be 1200w/5A) so you could put two of these on the floor and run them off 3 dimmers (presuming they are 2.5kw/10A dimmers). If these were loaded with VNSP (Very Narrow Spot) Par 56 lamps then you would probably get your desired effect.

 

Have a scout round on the web and you may find 2nd hand versions which would be more than suitable.

 

Anyway just one suggestion of many to consider.

HTH.

[David Ripley]

I think your talking about the 'Seconds Out' album cover, which was two rows, 24 each of PAR 64 ACL (Aircraft Landing Lights)

 

As all the touring kit Genesis used was US, the LX Company was See Factor, they may actually be 110v units.

 

The Afterglow pink backlight was a row of again 24 PAR 64s this time mediums (CP61), behind the drum risers.

 

There's plenty of footage on You Tube of all this!

 

David

[bricummo]

Cheers Stu,

 

Those PAR56 battens look like they'll do the job!

 

Anyone selling any they've got cluttering up the loft or garage? (fingers crossed) <_<

 

Cheers Bri.

 

PS. Just done a google search for PAR 56 battens and spotted that they do a PAR 36 batten which would probably suit our needs even better if I could throw say 100-150w bulbs in em.

 

Anyone ot any of these lying around? :)

 

Bri.

[paulears]

White plastic trunking - similar to what they put around rooms with 13A and other connectors in the middle section - with ceiling type MR16 fittings - 20 of them in series work nicely. I did a doorway like this and the effect is pretty good with narrow lamps. Don't use the eyeball type (I did) as they are devils to keep in set positions!

[cedd]

Out of interest, anybody get a look at what type of landing lights they are? Vested interest working in the technical department of an airport and all! I assume they would be approach lights (half round back with flat lens and reflector sat within the half round back) as opposed to runway fittings (which are very large, flat and heavy cast units). Final prod is that they could be VASI's with the dichroic filters removed.

 

As a small point, does the OP have a smoke or haze machine? If not it's needless to say this effect won't work.

[Jivemaster]

Regardless of the light, it's the SMOKE that makes the effect! MANY venues now have problems with smoke.