Upgrading from Carlsbro PA

[jasonprice07]

Hi

This is my first post so go easy.

My partner is a very good femal vocalist (I know, I would say that :) ). She has recently joined a party band and continues to do solo gigs in the SE. She purchased her PA equipment a few years ago when she first started gigging, all Calsbro stuff. Since getting together and me being an engineer (mechanical) I've taken a keen interest in the sound side of the performance. I feel that the original equipment was not doing her vocals justice so I started upgrading some of the smaller bits (mic and power amp (needed for the band)) but I'm not sure the next step in the upgrade process

which is basically my question, I'll list the current stuff below, open to all ideas, new mixer, active speakers, eq. etc.

Budget £1k

 

Thanks, Jason :)

 

Sennheiser e865 condensor mic

Calsbro Equinox 12300DSP powered mixer

Numark Dimension 3 Amp

Carlsbro Gamma 12/300 speakers

[paulears]

I think it's fair to say Carlsbro is not the kind of kit we usually debate on here, being Musical Industry type kit, rather than pro stuff - BUT Carlsbro have always been pretty good (I have one of their guitar amps and it's great).

 

The mic - a really nice, crisp sounding - if that's what you want - microphone - good choice unless you want a more mellow sound.

Powered mixer - well, the product is typical of the kind and not bad value

 

Speakers - I suspect typical chinese type imported stuff - to be fair, they'll probably be fine, and much better than the old chipboard boxes you have.

 

Amp - disco kit, but again, probably perfectly servicable in this scenario.

 

I wouldn't have any problem using this system.

[gnomatron]

I think you've misread there paul, that's a list of what he has at the moment, and he has ~1K to spend on... something!... to make it sound nicer. no suggestions myself unfortunately.

[fogg]

Well I don't think you can go wrong with a pair of mackie srm 450's but these would be eating up alot of your budget. You can pick these up now for about the 700 quid mark but you may find them cheaper second hand. Does she use the system just for her solo act or will it also be used with the band? If so are the rest of the band going to be running though the system aswell (such as drums, bass, guitar, brass etc?) How many mic inputs would you require and would you want inbuilt effects etc. The mic she is using is a nice mic and will probably be fine. You could use alof of the old kit with the new aswell, such as the gamma speakers and the power amp could be used for monitors. If you post what you requre the system to do we could help you out more!

 

Cheers

 

Simon

[andylouder]

Assuming the Carlsbro Equinox 12300DSP powered mixer is driving the Carlsbro Gamma 12/300 speakers , what are you using the Numark Dimension 3 Amp for ? Are you using it to drive monitors you haven't listed here ?

[Jivemaster]

The mic and speakers will make the most impact for their money. Really closely studying the mix will ensure you are getting the best from the desk.

 

Some of the sound thing is purely personal - not is it right but do you like it. SO, there may be the opportunity to hire a set of speakers and try them, or hire a mic to try it.

[jasonprice07]

Thanks for the initial responces.

The numark is powereing the Gamma speakers as FOH and the mixer is powering 2 yamaha monitors (keyboard players)

At present the kit is only used for vocals (3) in band use but I plan to run the keyboard through it at our next gig. I could see part of the drums needing to run through the PA in the future.

I have been looking at the SRM450's, there is talk of the quality dropping since production moved to China?( I have read)

Our current mixer has on baord effects but TBH in our recent venues (school halls) the effects just get lost in the overall sound so I normally end up removing them.

 

Hope this info. helps

 

Jason :P

[paulears]

Well serves me right for not reading properly, doesn't it?

 

£1k doesn't give you much scope to change things that much - but I'd go for better loudspeakers first, and upgrade the mixer - the Soundcraft Powerstations always had a pretty good sound (I had one a few years ago) and were really reliable - the effects were useful. One thing to watch, seeing your comment, is the venues - school halls amost always have all hard surfaces and parallel walls making their acoustics grim - so removing the reverb that you'd use in a deader venue is good sense. The mackies are good products, but the rumours of a quality drop shouldn't be a real issue buying them from new - my experience with chinese kit is that they usually fail very quickly, so faults should be put right by the dealer well within the G-tee period.

 

Personally, I've found the Mackies to be fine - but I have to say, I've heard others very, very similar. A visiting crew had some 15" JBL powered monitors and I'd cheerfully use a pair of them.

 

If all that is going through the main speakers is vocals, then youb are not going to hear much improvement, but if you have decent, full range backing tracks then better speakers are a good way to make a real difference. Before you spend any money - do you have anyone with a pair of decent subs you can try with your existing plastic boxes - you might be very surprised. I've got a pile of plastic boxes, and some 15" HK subs, and they work very well together - just making the bottom end more solid and less boomy. If you can try some, you could be quite pleased. With your £1000 budget, I'd be tempted for the moment to keep the rest of the kit, and concentrate on the loudspeakers, upgrading the mixer when either inputs or volume start to be the limiting factor.

[jasonprice07]

I was thinking about trying a sub. The Numark amp allows a sub to be driven alongside the 2 normal speakers with a selectable sub frequency. I've never tried it but the manual says it works.

At our last rehersal our mixer packed in so we used a Yamaha stagepas 300 set up that the keybaord player has. During rehersal I swaped over from the little Yamaha speakers to our Calsbro's numerous times and felt the vocals were much clearer through the Yamaha's, much less boomy. Hence I was wondering if the way forward was to get some quality 8 or 10 inch speakers and a sub.

There are so many ways to skin the same cat :P

 

Jason :D

[paulears]

An awful lot of people swear by the compact systems being sold by HK, and many others. The satellite system with a pair of small tops and a sub (or two) work really well in small venues - quality wise they are pretty good. For me, I don't like the single sub versions. The sub is usually designed to provide what the small satellite speakers can't manage - so tend to handle a little higher frequencies than on a sub designed for 12 or 15" tops. I can har the sopund coming from two distinct places - it goes away as the notes get lower of course - but on a track with a clearly defined bass line, the image shifts around too much for my taste. I guess if the sub was central, it would be fine, but practical matters mean the sub is often wherever it fits! Two subs and two satellites sounds better.

 

What's clear is that you need to try some out - maybe hiring some alternatives for the next gig and trying the, out for real would help your choice? The comments you've already make suggest you can hear differences already, so buying without a demo with your kind of music is not a great idea.

[J Pearce]

Or buy two systems, so you have 2 subs and 4 tops.

 

You don't always have to set up the 2nd pair of tops, but they are useful for places with very wide stages/auditoria.

[Jivemaster]

http://www.soundslive.co.uk/product~name~Y...2-V~ID~1903.asp

 

The Yamaha S112v came highly reccommended recently for a similar purpose, so look at the link and see..

 

If you can go to a dealer with stock you may get a demo.

[Matt Riley]

Re: the Yamaha S112V, they are very good for the money - although I'd probably go for the mackie 450s given the choice. If I were to buy them however, I'd get my dealer to order in the CM12V model, as these look much better and can double as monitors for larger venues, and shouldn't cost much more as they're the same speaker with a different finish. If you wanted to get a better desk, and wanted to keep down the powered route then the Yamaha EMX5000 mixing desk is quite good, as are the soundcraft powerstation previously mentioned and the Allen and Heath (powered) PA series desks.

 

Also, for an application like this, I wouldn't worry about subs just yet, and just get some good quality tops.

 

M

[Chris Beesley]

The compact HK type systems do pack a fair punch and most of the systems available provide a decent quality PA - I use two of the new W-Audio systems for a lot of jobs and one for small work, if the two systems are out together then a set of twin-top poles (bullhorn brackets) comes in handy. Personally I think the HK systems are worth a look... maybe as the guys have suggested and hire a few different systems first.

http://cpc.farnell.com/productimages/farnell/standard/8860809.jpg

[jasonprice07]

Just wanted to thank all who gave a reply.

Gonna hire a pair of EV SX 300's for a gig on Friday.

 

Jason