Hard Points

[sameness]

Iv been asked to assist with a high school prom thats happening in 3 weeks time. Went down to the venue yesterday, which is in the local branch of a recognised hotel chain to look at the room. Anything flown from the ceiling is on removable hooks, not eyes that screw into points in the ceiling.

 

Im just trying to find out whether this is a safe way to do it. There will be a 12m section of trilite(4x3m) all connected hanging on 6 of the above mentioned hooksevenly. The truss will be loaded with 6x250 entours and 4x250 washes.

 

Can anyone tell me whether open hooks screwed into hardpoints are safe/suitable.

 

Thanks

[Ynot]

Can anyone tell me whether open hooks screwed into hardpoints are safe/suitable.

Without actually seeing the venue/hooks in question, my initial reaction would be no, no, and thrice NO!

Hotel function room ceilings aren't renowned for having suitable flying points for truss, and would most likely NOT be able to stand the weight of the truss, left alone a handful of moving heads!

 

I'd personally look at some alternatives here, and bearing in ming another thread, NOT hanging the movers from truss betwixt a couple of floor stands, either!

:** laughs out loud **:

[sameness]

Thanks for the reply, I thought that might be the case. I will ask the hire company if they have any larger ground supported rigs that would be more suitable.

[Jivemaster]

Ceiling hooks may once have had a rating in the order of 25lbs or so. Mostly they are usefull for hanging streamers and bunting for parties. Before you offer them to riggers to use there needs to be a recent certification.

[gareth]

Hotel function room ceilings aren't renowned for having suitable flying points for truss, and would most likely NOT be able to stand the weight of the truss, left alone a handful of moving heads!

Whoah there! Don't write it off as a bad job without knowing the score. There are lots of hotel ballrooms which have points in the roof with plenty of load capacity. Ask the hotel themselves - "I need to hang xx kilos from those two points up there - can I do that?".

[trussmonkey_2]

Even if the points in ceiling are rated,I would not hang anything off an open hook. At the venue I work at,all hanging points from the ceiling have to be closed eye bolts. These are pemanently installed and tested once a year. I would definately be looking at a ground support system.

[Ynot]

Whoah there! Don't write it off as a bad job without knowing the score. There are lots of hotel ballrooms which have points in the roof with plenty of load capacity. Ask the hotel themselves - "I need to hang xx kilos from those two points up there - can I do that?".

Hmmm.... :** laughs out loud **:

I did say "Without actually seeing the venue/hooks in question, my initial reaction would be....."

I can't (and won't) claim to be a rigging expert, but tend to exercise caution .....

I've also seen a fair few hotel function rooms, and worked on events in a few over the years, and can't say I've seen any that have obvious support points for flying stuff.

 

Course, I have been wrong before....!! :** laughs out loud **:

[Roderick]

I have noticed that hotel rooms are getting better at accommodating today's production requirements, at least in Australia. Not only rigging points but also power supply, tie-lines, etc. So it may well be that the points are quite capable to hold the required load. What I don't like are the open hooks, that is a definite no-no.

My suggestion:

- Get the point rating from the hotel - if not available, do NOT use them - and get your rigger to calculate if the rating is sufficient.

- If the hooks are screwed into fixed points, get the size and thread of the hooks and replace them with closed eyes bolts for the points you need.

NOTE: Make sure the eye-bolts are rated too!

 

If the hotel is pro-active they may well want to fix the problem once you have pointed it out to them. If not, the cost of the six bolts you need will be a low price to pay for ease of mind.

[gstagelx]

Can you not hire a tri lite truss from the hire company and get them to set it up, this would be a lot safer then attaching to anything at the hotel

[Jivemaster]

The presence of open hooks may indicate some lack of compliance with LOLER. The venue may use the points for hanging table numbers with fishing line, or the points MAY be structurally rated.

 

You need the venue's permission to use the points for your intended load and you should have sight of recent rating / test documentation. You cannot say the points are unsafe, nor can you say they are safe without the documentary proof from the venue. While it would be nice to keep the truss out of reach, getting the approval to use the points from the venue may not be quick or easy (Lots of venues are staffed by people who do not understand technical things!)

[Pete McCrea]

Quite often Hotels will have Unistrut set into the ceiling, which presents itself as a slot in the ceiling. Using suitably rated hardware you may be able to get upto 250kg/m. BUT YOU MUST VERIFY WITH THE HOTEL. I have been in venues where they present a meat hook style rigging point that fits this. Not great. It has been known for these to be used with methods of making sure that the sling can't get out of the hook.

 

If it is unistrut, then you might be better off buying the spring plates and rated eyes and making up your own eye points for the track, if it is Unistrut. I'd expect to pay arounf £5/ point for the eyes and nuts. Try City Electrical, or Newey and Eyre.

 

Unistrut

Channel Nuts

[Jivemaster]

It's the formal permission to use from the venue that matters! Qualified by loading limits and plans.