OddJob Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 Hi guys. Sorry to start a new topic on my first ever post but I have a strange request. I am a final year youth work student and I'm studying Events Management module this term. For the assessment we have to go through the process of organising an event, the one which we have been given to research and plan for is 'The Ultimate Event' (Website), a concert in a car park of Alton Towers. It is proposed for 12,000 people will be attending. Obviously this is a fictitious event we are organising and we personally are not going to be putting the event on, merely learning the process of it. I was given this forum address by one of the lectures who works for an events management company. The things which we need advice on, seeing as we are not of the business, are: - Size of PA required (We have been advised a 10k system is the way forward with some additional rear speakers is the way forward, whatever this looks like) that does not exceed 96db, and where to source quotes from- Size/type of LCD screens to show on stage action and where to get them from- Size of stage and companies to get a quote from- Type of lighting rig that would be suitable and again, where to get quotes from- Number of AV Crew required to rig and run such an event (our brief says it has to be rigged, run and then de-rigged all within 24 hours!)- Generators to power the event (again we've been told 3x240kv bio diesel generators are the way forward so that audio is on one, visuals/lighting on another, 3rd as a back up/running other power at the event e.g. marquees), and where to get such things from- If the PA/visuals comes with all the cabling/mixing desk/etc that is required to run the event- Anything else that through your experience you feel needs to be considered Thank you in advance for your time in any feedback you can give. It's all greatly appreciated as I've not got a clue where to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPete Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 Hello there, and Welcome to the Blue Room :) It sounds like you've been given quite a challenge, one I would worry about myself! From what I can gather, it sounds like you may not have that much prior knowledge on what happens on the run up to and at such an event - apologies if you do! Without sounding negative at all, it seems that if we were to answer your questions (plus anything else...) then we'd be doing the research for you. One of things I would try to do, is get the Yellow Pages out (or Google/Yell.com/whichever search engine...) and actually contact the different companies involved: PA/Audio, Lighting, Projection/Video, Power, Security/Crowd Control, etc.A few things you could ask them would be if they supplied crew, their own power, their own catering, what sort of price they'd offer? That way you can get quite a few quotes, and although this is a fictitious event, you might be a customer in a few years to come so I'm sure they'd be able to help. And also, are you allowed to contact the people involved in this year's Ultimate Event, like Alton Towers or the Ultimate Event's own organisers? I hope that helps a little. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 The basics you have to work on are surprisingly accurate. A couple of years I was looking at the spec for this event with the idea of pitching for the job, but the audio level limits are very difficult to achieve - if your simulation is to allow this audio limit to be preserved, then the power in watts is pretty irrelevant. What you need is a system that allows you to direct the sound to where it is needed. In open air events, any power radiated in any direction other than at the audience is wasted power, and of course, has to go somewhere - no doubt to the local residents and the councils metering systems. If you want your project to really be good - then research PAs that allow concentration of power where it's needed - so you could be talking arrays, towers and that kind of kit rather than looking for a 10K system that has to be driven hard to produce level at the back, and gets the event shut down! The results could also be of real use, if you do it well and come up with a new, novel system that would really work. My own research didn't get very far - it became very clear that the solution was also expensive, and the budget for this event isn't (assuming the details I got) massive. I did have the spec and council noise info somewhere - if I fall over them, I'll pm. Not sure where they are, but I might have kept them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 An event of this size will need licensing by the local authority. The licence will tell you about sound light security toilets and millions of other things. there are many on here that couldnt do the whole project single handed, Look out the concepts and plan them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddJob Posted May 17, 2007 Author Share Posted May 17, 2007 An event of this size will need licensing by the local authority. The licence will tell you about sound light security toilets and millions of other things. there are many on here that couldnt do the whole project single handed, Look out the concepts and plan them all. The licence will give the levels for each? I will be researching the HSE levels for each which I thought would give staff/toilets/etc levels. Thank you all for the replies, the time is appreciated. I will go ahead and contact some of the companies, hopefully they'll give me the time of day for a theoretical event. As was appreciated it is about experience of knowing what to ask for, thanks for giving me a heads up in this area. Any other comments/suggestions would be welcome. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baldwin Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 There is a directory of suppliers to all aspects of the entertainment industry, called The White Book. If you can get your hands on that, it will give you a very wide range of suppliers to choose from. There's an industry magazine called Access All Areas, which covers event production. If you can obtain back issues of that, it might give you some insight into some of the things that go on in planning events - and there's also a classifieds directory at the back of each issue, which would give you a good list of suppliers to start with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodilesoldier Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 For your HSE research, may I recommend "The Event Safety Guide" it's a hse publication and covers all areas from toilets to staffing ect. Also for the sound/light hire, you should be able to find a company that would do them both (probably do the av/lasers/staging) as well. Have fun, sounds like a really fun course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon MFR Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 if we were to answer your questions (plus anything else...) then we'd be doing the research for you. Good point. Have you not considered contacting the powers that be at Alton Towers if they would consider hosting such an event? The land would presumably belong to them, and if they were to consider hiring an external festival promoter (you) to host the event on their behalf, you would probably be more successful. But... If you've got 12,000 people in the car park of an area that usually holds 15,000, you have serious H & S issues to consider. I re-quote the quote above though...good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 Yes the event licence and planning permissions can be VERY detailed and specific, or if you inspire confidence in your licenseing officer, you write your own! And get them to sign it! Hi guys. ...snip.... I am a final year youth work student and I'm studying Events Management module this term. For the assessment we have to go through the process of organising an event,...snip...- Thank you in advance for your time in any feedback you can give. It's all greatly appreciated as I've not got a clue where to start. Step back a moment! This is an assessment for one module! Some serious research in the trade sources mentioned above will get you lots of ideas, sources and suppliers. You may not be expected to have a full commercial and technical knowldge of all disciplines. (One member here has just finished a Masters degree in sound systems!). Look at "Health and Safety aspects in the live music industry - Kemp and Hill" ISBN 1 904031 22 6 It deals with getting the punters in, entertained, and out safely. As a professional Youth Worker you will never be competent to spec full instalations! You will never be expected to be fully up to speed and date with all the electrical and test implications of 16th edition and 7909 and the details of LOLER and rigging. Organising involves being wise enough to call in skilled professionals and setting them a task and liasing with all parties to keep it all on track! NOT being fully competent in all disciplines to do it yourself! One of the most valuable things you could try to find is a local authority generic licence for an event such, read the terms and see how you would comply. Back in time on here is a link to the "Technical rider" that went out ahead of a major 70s touring band. Pages and pages detailing rigging equipment staffing, staff catering stewarding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete McCrea Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 Hi guys. - Size/type of LCD screens to show on stage action and where to get them from - Number of AV Crew required to rig and run such an event (our brief says it has to be rigged, run and then de-rigged all within 24 hours!) - If the PA/visuals comes with all the cabling/mixing desk/etc that is required to run the event Welcome to the Blue Room. A few thoughts..... You'll have more luck if you search for LED screens as opposed to LCD screens. LED screens can go to huge sizes (16m x 9m and above are easily achievable), where as LCD tend to get to about 100" diagonal. Number of crew? Each company will specify how many they'd need to do the work asked of them in the timescale you dictate. You will probably find that the crewing could quickly become the most expensive part of a show like this. If I'm quoting a system for an event like this, we'd generally make sure we supply all the bits we'd need to make it work.... It might be worth bearing in mind that most companies are out there to quote on jobs that have a reasonable likely hood of happening and therefore earning them some cash. I'd suggest bracing yourself for some prickly responses if you contact companies, ask them for a quote, then tell them it's for a project. However if you explain your case, then they might be willing to offer 5 or 10 minutes on the phone to help you out. On that note, if you need help with the video aspects of the show, drop me a PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddJob Posted May 18, 2007 Author Share Posted May 18, 2007 if we were to answer your questions (plus anything else...) then we'd be doing the research for you.I re-quote the quote above though...good luck! It was more hoping to get an idea of what to ask for in the quotes rather than asking people to do my research for me, I'm not that much of a lazy student. As some of you have realised it's a specialist area of which I know nothing about hence asking for a bit of advice before I went forth and started asking companies. Sorry if it came across like this. I'd suggest bracing yourself for some prickly responses if you contact companies, ask them for a quote, then tell them it's for a project. However if you explain your case, then they might be willing to offer 5 or 10 minutes on the phone to help you out That's what I was worried about if I just called up knowing very little of which to talk to them about. Thanks to you all for your responses, I'll pop off and see if anyone will give me a few mins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 If anyone wants the history of the noise problems at Alton towers, read this report. I do have a site map of the 2005 event with quite a few details as to where things are, and what's going on - but you'll need to pm me with an email address - I don't want to make this publically available, as it's perhaps more suitable for 'considered study'. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cedd Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 I've gone to the event as a member of the public now for 3 years running. Flown arrays either side of the stage with 2 (this year anyway) flown arrays further back just behind the tech desk. The screen this year was a lorry-based LED screen but we found it was hard work to see as it was only on the right hand side, last year they had 2, one at each side (though I think the left hand one was flown from truss rather than truck-based). You might think about looking at some of the acts who have played in the past. I know this year Delirious ran their own visuals through the screens which included words for their songs. You'll need to cater for their needs if this is the case (it will also look good that you've thought about it). Think about recording the event too, I know they have a tv crew there to film ready for a TV broadcast later in the year. We've found that earlier on in the night (the first 3 acts really) the stage lighting really doesn't do a lot due to the ambient light. Only the last 2 bands really benefit. As a final thought, make sure the roof is strong enough to stand the lead singer of a certain band from this year climbing halfway up the side of the proscenium truss (I'd love to hear the telling off he got afterwards!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 http://www.blue-room.org.uk/index.php?showtopic=5158 Look at this and follow all the links! It was for something specific but covers so much detail. All the kit listed has been superceded but the principle is very valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddJob Posted May 21, 2007 Author Share Posted May 21, 2007 Thank you all so very much for your input, it's really appreciated and gives me things to think about. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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