GridGirl Posted May 12, 2007 Share Posted May 12, 2007 Our next production is an adaptation of Buchan's The Thirty-Nine Steps and given that our theatre is small, having a full-size replica of the Flying Scotsman is not possible! We're going to be using a scaled-down locomotive, and the director has asked us if it's possible for smoke to come out of the smokestack. A Tiny Fogger would be the answer here, but unfortunately no hire company in the country has one (while I love living in New Zealand, there is the occasional down side!) and if we were to buy one I suspect it would a) be very expensive and b) take too long to get here. So we're looking for alternative methods. They have to be cable-free (and so battery powered) and at present I'm rather stuck for ideas - pyro is not an option either. Anybody got any helpful suggestions? The director is a great guy and so we're all very keen to make this work if it's at all possible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted May 12, 2007 Share Posted May 12, 2007 You say pyro is not an option, but couldn't you light a smoke pellet, drop it down the smokestack (if it will fit), and then send the thing onstage? Assuming the scene isn't too long that is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted May 12, 2007 Share Posted May 12, 2007 how big is the "loco" ? How much smoke do you want? and where is it to go to- smoke triggers alarms! Can you mod a disco smoke machine to run off mains in the wings then be operated from a UPS or battery and inverter while the loco is on stage. Can you change the cartridge heater in a cheap smoker to a low voltage one and use 12 or 24volts from batteries. What is the control system. Can you look at projection? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GridGirl Posted May 13, 2007 Author Share Posted May 13, 2007 The scene is a little too long for a smoke pellet, plus there are all sorts of licensing issues here in NZ - you do actually have to be licensed in order to have anything to do with pyro, which is expensive and time-consuming, plus we don't have the storage facilities on site as we don't use pyro at all. Modding a disco smoker to run off batteries is a possible option, but the problem is size - it'd need to be a pretty small smoke machine (the loco is about a foot long by about eight inches high and isn't hollow!) and I haven't been able to find one small enough to do the job. Projection unfortunately isn't an option either, it would simply be too complicated and the smoke isn't all that crucial! Control system will be the actor who is holding the loco triggering the smoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelxbloke Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Perhaps a smokeless option would work?White silk and a 12V pc fan? HTH Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Can you make something like a gas powered soldering iron heating the tip of a hypodermic needle and press the syringe to get smoke, 10ml of fluid should do a lot of smoke. or get an element from a 12v soldering iron and braze a hypodermic needle to it. Or get a 12v cartridge heater and fasten a hypodermic needle to it ( http://www.acraelectric.com/cartridge_heaters.htm among others on google search for cartridge heater 12v Search your locality!) Can the power source be in the actor's costume? it's easier to hide a battery in a pocket than no-where. Does the loco have a tender?can that be hollowed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ike Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Can you make something like a gas powered soldering iron heating the tip of a hypodermic needle and press the syringe to get smoke...Unfortunatly its a bit more complicated than that if you want half decent results. This site would be a good place to start, you also need to be careful not to overcook the fluid and create lots of nasty carcinogens, having said that it really isn't too difficult. I'd be tempted to get a cheep fogger and get a friendly electronics type to butcher it and knock up a simple inverter to run the heater off a lead acid or car battery. The inverter and control electronics don't need to be anything special and only need to output something that vaguely resembles mains voltage. If you replace the tank with something smaller and get rid of the case it shouldn't take up too much room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 In my old smoker the heater block was a lump about the size of a pint bottle. An alloy block bored to take a cartridge heater and bored through to pass fluid/fog Temperature control was by a bi-metalic switch prob at about 250C. Fluid was pumped by a magnetic pump. The whole thing was larger than the Loco in question. And 800w! Getting 80w of a small battery will be difficult. Look at a bar of alloy with holes for a soldering iron element and fluid through. Temperature control by otterstat or thermocouple, lagging by ceramic paper from RS. pre-heat off mains do the scene off battery. Really it would be better to buy a microfogger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhuson Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 How about a Le Maitre Mini Mist? It's canister based so all you need to do is heat it up on the mains and then it'll run for up to 20 minutes before needing heating again. Not sure if you'll be able to source one of these in NZ, but reckon theres more chance than a Tiny Fogger as they've been around longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ike Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Hmm I seem to have lost the ability to read. Anyway bearing in mind the size I would almost defiantly go along the lines of this. I've built a couple of smoke machines and can categorically say its a right pain in the arse. Most cheep commercial heating blocks are manufactured in two parts; the aluminium heating block and a harder metal insert. The insert is shaped so as to form a helix between it and the block when fitted into a pre drilled hole. After entering the block the fluid passes down the helix and is forced through a small hole at the end of the insert, usually about 10mm from the end of the block. This is the point at which the majority of the fluid vaporises due to the pressure change, the fog then passes out through the nozzle at the end of the block. A simple hole in the block really doesn't cut it, a bit of bar with a course thread hammered into it may improve things slightly however it needs to be as thermally conductive as possible. To be honest unless you have access to a lathe, decent machinist and a bit of stock I think you'll struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soundie Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Anyway bearing in mind the size I would almost defiantly go along the lines of this. On this page there was a suggestion to use artificial smoke in a can. Maplin sell it here in the UK, im sure you would find a supplier locally, and this would seem to be a pretty good, quick and easy solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Another idea! Get a mini-mist can and fit it with a connector from an airbrush and connect that to a hypodermic on a soldering iron. Still I think the loco is so small that the engineering would be very difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cedd Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Talk to your local garden railway fraternity. Their models have on board smoke. Lots of them go a step further and connect a plunger/wafter arrangement to the axle that forces the smoke out in "puffs" in time with the rotation of the wheels. Lots of 12v smoke generators out there for the railway and model boat world, indeed some of the smoke fluid is of the "puffing" variety. Don't know how it does it, but it surges in smoke output. Little 12v battery and you'd be sorted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w/robe Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Our Stage Manager took apart a Thomas the Tank Engine that smoked earlyer this year. It was aprox 20" long and 10" high from memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GridGirl Posted May 16, 2007 Author Share Posted May 16, 2007 Thanks all for the helpful replies! I've spent today visiting model shops with varying degrees of success; I got a few blank looks and "sorry, can't help" and then thought I'd struck lucky when one guy knew exactly what I was talking about. Problem was he had none in stock and it was going to take three months to get it in! So I think we're going to go down the "build it yourself" road - fortunately I have time, enough budget to get what I need, and a very helpful workshop who can braze and weld. If it works I'll post pics of the result! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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