Industry Training

[JimWebber]

Although this incident happened in a theatre based context, I have a sneaking suspicion that it is widespread across the whole electrical industry...

 

A young lad (18) - Which is young to me... :** laughs out loud **: Was helping me out at a get in, and I asked him to change some plugs for me... In the time he was doing it he proudly announced that he had been accepted to university to study electrical and electronic engineering after managing a B'Tec with three distinctions. He then went on to describe one of his B'tec questions where he had to plot a resultant waveform, involving all sorts of calculations to and from radians, and all manner of clever stuff.

 

After spending an age on one plug, he asked me to check it for him... I was actually glad that he asked because he was unsure, but when I did check it, I just gave it back to him, telling him to do it again properly.

 

"But that one is labelled 'N'" he says in a somewhat plaintive voice.

 

"So why have you connected the brown one to it?" I replied.

 

After remaking the plug, he again asked me to have a look at it...

 

There was about 1/4" of bare conductor sticking out of the terminals. His excuse was that the core was too long. I then suggested that he may want to cut it down.

 

The whole point behind this rant, is that can some-one please assure me that we are not training up a whole generation of degree level electrical engineers who are unable to fit a plug?

 

Apologies for the rant, but it's been a bad weekend...

 

Jim

[fatbarry_2000]

This is an interesting, but not unusual, discussion.

 

I graduated from LIPA with a degree in Theatre and Performance Technology in July 2005.

Since then, I have worked for Adlib Lighting, and in my current job [I am a Production Technician at the Philharmonic Hall, Liverpool] I see large numbers of their employees, and those of Adlib Audio.

 

From what I know, Andy Dockerty has a particular problem with LIPA graduates, and this is fair

enough, there are lots of stories of LIPA Sound Technology graduates not enjoying starting at the

bottom with Adlib, and wanting to get right in with the mixing.

 

Interestingly, this is not the case on the LX side - the Hire Manager is a LIPA graduate, along

with at least four of his full-time staff. These people have all graduated from what is now the

BA TPT.

However, as Andy points out, his staff will tell you the course was (and is) not the best

in the world. They are generally referring to the taught modules.

 

The TPT course has undergone significant changes since it began. It started as a year-long

vocational style course, which was then extended to be a DipHE two year course, and now a

three year degree.

In that time, the modules taught have changed, but there is certainly a feeling that people

are now learning over three years what could be taught in two.

 

The big difference with the course now, as opposed to when it started, is the oppurtunities

offered to students - not the taught modules, but time outside of this, working on shows in

any capacity that hasn't been filled by assessed students. This allows those who want to [and that's the important point] to spend three years working at all levels from Stage Crew through LX, Live Sound and Stage Management, to Production Manager.

 

In my own time at LIPA I was able to undertake a variety of roles, including regular counterweight flying and some Production Management - both things I've not been able

to do yet in the 'real world', so at least I have that basic knowledge for a later date, rather

than learning from the word go in a new job.

 

I understand that university-level courses aren't great for everyone, and I know that people

with only a FE-level education can prosper in the industry (I work with a few), as well as those who have entered the industry as an apprentice, or similar.

 

I also accept the point that not every graduate can be expected to be the best technician in the world - I remember graduating with people who only did the lectures and the assessed shows, but that doesn't mean they'll be useless - provided they're honest about their abilities.

 

And therein is the problem - the people who talk the talk but can't walk the walk are found in every part of life, in every HE course, and out of it, already in the industry... it's not possible to stop every one getting in, or we'd have a much nicer world in which to work!

 

Now where's the tin for this 2p... :-)

[Ike]

...uni is teaching me things that allow me to sidestep out of the industry should I get bored of it or become injured in a way that would limit my work in the industry. It is also teaching me the maths and science that explain, back-up and further the knowledge I have from my practical work.

Surely you would also pick this up while working in the industry? As well as my practical experience I have an ever increasing collection of books I regularly refer to cover all sorts of theoretical aspects of my job, to me this seems like a much more natural way to learn than fitting practical experience around you classroom studies.

 

I could have gone straight in and worked up the industry fresh from A levels; but I'm an academically minded guy, and didn't want to miss the opportunity to stretch my mind before life gets too tied down to do so.

Thats got to be the clincher. Academia is certainly not for me, I wouldn't have enjoyed it and no doubt I would have dropped out. I do however have lots of friends who have gained great experiences from it so who am I to complain. Having said that I wouldn't say I'm stretching my mind any less than I would be if at uni...

[Davethsparky]

...

A young lad (18) - Which is young to me... :) Was helping me out at a get in, and I asked him to change some plugs for me... In the time he was doing it he proudly announced that he had been accepted to university to study electrical and electronic engineering after managing a B'Tec with three distinctions. He then went on to describe one of his B'tec questions where he had to plot a resultant waveform, involving all sorts of calculations to and from radians, and all manner of clever stuff....

 

why does it surprise you that someone studying electrical engineering cannot wire a plug? would you also expect a structural engineer to build you a house or an aerospace engineer to fly a plane?

 

the job of an electrical engineer is not to carry out electrical installation work. their job is concerned with understanding the behaviour of electricity and how to use it, the design of electrical systems, etc. Also you may find that the only plugs he's had to deal with in the past year are the 297 pin things that go in the join between two sections of the new airbus.

[Joe Bleasdale]

well, if you ask me andy is right. The head of adlib lighting, peter abraham, said to me to get out of school asap and get into the industry. And I'm gonna do just that!

[Pete McCrea]

well, if you ask me andy is right. The head of adlib lighting, peter abraham, said to me to get out of school asap and get into the industry. And I'm gonna do just that!

 

I'd stick it out untill you can learn correct use of capital letters..... :)

 

There is a good balance of Taught learning and practical experience to be had. It's getting the right balance for the person, and their ultimate end goal. If you want to work your way up and potentially take things past the operation and design to a business side (running a company for instance), then maybe additional time in HE is the way forward. If it's to be a LD and operator for ever then maybe HE isn't required.

 

As an employer, I'd consider somebody with a degree in Geography and plenty of experience the same as someone with just the experience, because they should posses additional skills such as report writing, research ability, independent working etc, that could well be valuable to me as an employer.