Lighting for underwater effect

[Sarah Q]

I received an email from a friend of mine, and I must admit to being a little stuck for ideas myself....

 

He's been asked to design lx for a ballet that is set under water, and he wondered whether anyone could help out with any gel combinations or tricks that might be useful. He needs to create the effect of sunlight coming through the water onto the "seabed" (stage), but his only idea is pointing a profile a container full of water....

 

I have suggested animation wheels and nice glass gobos....

 

And of course, this being a student production, they have next to no budget.

 

Any ideas?

[Ynot]

He needs to create the effect of sunlight coming through the water onto the "seabed" (stage), but his only idea is pointing a profile a container full of water....

How about the Chauvet (or similar) Abyss style effect? Go here and use the drop down to find Abyss.

We have 3 at the theatre that I've used to good effect in the past - though they're not hugely bright (only 250w each) if you're lighting your backdrop with just these they could well do the job.

They're primarily a disco lantern, but with a couple of theatre applications...

[djburnage]

DHA Do some effect rotators that will simulate water. They just attach to the front of a profile http://www.dhalighting.co.uk/MFX.htm

I think these are probally quite expenseve but there are some budget effects rotators on the market to buy that will do the same thing Or you can buy a second hand one from somewhere like usedlighting.co.uk

Hope this helps

Chris

[Jivemaster]

Zero budget is usually a cue to look for thinggs you already own! old OHP with a pale cyan gel and a tray of water. breakups with blue and green in macs blue and green on an animation wheelon a projector. Where is the final performance?

[Sarah Q]

DHA Do some effect rotators that will simulate water. They just attach to the front of a profile http://www.dhalighting.co.uk/MFX.htm

I think these are probally quite expenseve but there are some budget effects rotators on the market to buy that will do the same thing Or you can buy a second hand one from somewhere like usedlighting.co.uk

Hope this helps

Chris

 

I have suggested gobo rotators and animation wheels to him, even ripple tanks.... the production is in a drama school in Guildford......

[Meduza]

Big plate with water + profile + cyan filter, reflect the light in the water :blink:

[SimonW]

I think the key thing here is _under_ water, not beside it. You don't get that many water ripple effects when you're actually under the sea.

 

If I were your friend, I would try and find some diving videos - take a look at what the quality of light underwater tends to look like, and then think of ways of replicating it. Strong sunlight underwater can often be spectacular, with the water serving to scatter the light and produce strong beams in the same way as haze does. The way that the light shimmers as the surface of the water its passing through moves is also important.

 

Also, what's the style of the piece they're lighting? Are they trying to create a naturalistic image, or something more subjective. Would just using a watery colour palette achieve their goals? Is it important that the water have a location? - the quality of light underwater changes as you move around the world in the same way that the light above water does.

 

Simon.

[roryfm]

Derevo toured recently with a production called Island in the Stream which was visually spectacular with not a lot of gear. They achieved a fantastic effect ripple effect using a number (3/4 per bar on 4 LX bars if I remember correctly) of homemade ripple tanks strapped to the front of lanterns (PC or fresnel)

 

Essentially this was a square tank with a couple of inches of water in it, with an offset motor mounted on the side to create the ripples when needed (anyone that remembers ripple tanks from Physics in school will hopefully have an idea of the setup)

 

When the motors agitate the water the ripples on the floor look stunning, hopefully someone else will remember this tour (2003?) and be able to describe it better - feel free to ask me to clarify

 

ror

[gherriott]

Having been diving before, the light can be desicribed as above with he haze effect. You do see ripples of light along the floor bed depending how deep you go, but I think maybe with a low budget they should try concentrating on the beams of light, rather than the ripples. A cheap hazer or fogger with a fan on it would highlight the light beams nicely. What colour is the stage floor going to be? This will affect the colour once it hits the floor and the amount of bounce. I think the use of an old OHP with a bowl of water on it and a cyan gel is a very good idea, although where you would position it would be another matter!

[Ekij]

How deep underwater?

 

Remember that red light is refracted most as it passes through the air/water lens and so drops off fastest.

As you go deeper you lose red light first, then yellow, eventually green too so everything is blue (and go deep enough you lose blue too and it's all black but I'm assuming blackout isn't the effect you want!)

[Ynot]

I think the key thing here is _under_ water, not beside it. You don't get that many water ripple effects when you're actually under the sea.

Hmmm...

Actually, the thing to remember is that the effect desired is most likely NOT a realistic one.

Punters (and through them, directors) tend to want to go for stylised versions of an effect.

 

Moonlight is never blue, but on many a stage night scene is delivered as blue.

And don't let's get started on the whole thunder/lightning topic, but that's another example.

 

Whether in real life there are ripples at whatever depth, some sort of ripple effect is what the punters will be expecting to give them the impression that it's an underwater scene.

[Don Allen]

I have recently done two productions of Suessical The Musical and for Macallisters pool which is an underwater stream:

 

On the first production I used two Wild Tech Waterwaves http://www.storedj.com.au/products/product.php?id=92 on the main actors centre stage and for the dancers on the side stages I used four JB Varyscan 4's with slow rotating gobos and prisms with an aqua colour. There was six 40 watt u/v flouros for the dancers silky costumes and a pair of narrow 12 degree PAR16 on the lead's face.It worked well as the audience saw the effect on the actors and dancers, not thought about how realistic it was.

 

On the second production I used a Strand Patt 252 http://www.strandarchive.co.uk/lanterns/p252.html with water ripple effect, six u/v's, nine 500 watt profiles with breakup gobos on a slow chase to simulate movement, which worked well and some blue fill. Overall I was disappointed with the second production as the 252 did not work as well as the Water waves, but the gobo's worked well as they were overheads so it worked well on the dancers.

 

It's the illusion that counts, not the accuracy of the effect, unless you are doing a museum display or similar.

 

On reflection (couldn't pass up the chance), overhead movers with gobo shake would be easiest way to do it. Cheapest way is nine Patt 23's with gobos on at least three dimmer channels if you can do it, overhead on a steep angle.

[SimonW]

It's the illusion that counts, not the accuracy of the effect, unless you are doing a museum display or similar.

 

Indeed. But generally, that illusion has to be grounded in reality. You need to work out what the essential elements of a given setting are, and how to replicate them. Even if you're going for something highly stylised, the key is giving the brain something that it can latch on to. Much of creating good lighting is about improving your observational skills - it's not about the kit, or the particular shades of gel you use. Its about looking at what light does naturally, working out which bits of that are the key to the scene in question, what should be heightened, and what should be discarded, and applying that on stage.

 

Simon.

[JimWebber]

I think the key thing here is _under_ water, not beside it. You don't get that many water ripple effects when you're actually under the sea.

Hmmm...

Actually, the thing to remember is that the effect desired is most likely NOT a realistic one.

Punters (and through them, directors) tend to want to go for stylised versions of an effect.

 

 

Here Here! I fully agree, it's not neccessarily what looks accurate, it's what looks right. The punters will see ripples, think "Water", and you're already halfway there. Many years back, I lit "When the Wind Blows" When the nuclear bomb hits at the end of act one, the script calls for a several minute delay between the flash of light, and the sound of the explosion.

Easy... Plenty of par-cans blinding the audience, followed a few minutes later by the loudest FX in the world... It looked Cr*p! In the end, we syncronised the flash with the bang. Not truly realistic, but it was what people expected It was actually far more effective!

 

Jim

[zonino]

also, if you have light shining down assuming your not too deep, you actually can see the ripples anyway!

 

I'd probably use alot of turquoise/greeny side light, and then with top-light with some sort of gobo in (I'm thinking cheap here)

 

obviously movers with a animation wheel in would be great for this, but on a student budget? unlikely!