timtheenchanteruk Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I'm looking to upgrade some of my mics, I currently use some cheapo shotgun mics (I think designed for cam-corders) these are letting my system, down, and as I'm down to my last 2, think its time to look at replacing them. I use the mics for stage re-enforcement for chorus/non-radioed cast and wonder if staying with shotgun type mics, or switching to PZMs is the best idea, and what are the pros/cons of each. I do also use 5 audiotechnica PRO45s on-stage, with usually 2 shotguns in the pit (sometimes 3 for coverage) I'm looking at around £100 per mic if poss, although could possibly stretch to £150 per mic, and would prefer phantom powered if poss. your recommendations/advice please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I'm looking to upgrade some of my mics, I currently use some cheapo shotgun mics (I think designed for cam-corders) these are letting my system, down, and as I'm down to my last 2, think its time to look at replacing them.Easy one. Crown PCC160 plate mics.Stick some foam under them to reduce some of the foot-clatter and they'll be fine.They're phantom powered.Not sure of retail price at the mo, tho... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 pcc work better than shotguns and far better than hand held cardioids every time. Crowns, as Ynot says, are pretty standard, however cpc do some less than 30 quid - metal construction, mini XLRs and pretty bomb proof - sound good too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timtheenchanteruk Posted February 23, 2007 Author Share Posted February 23, 2007 wow, that was a quick reply, unfortunatly though the only UK price I have found from google is £287.00. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzette Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I think they can retail around about the £200 mark, so probably a bit higher in price than the OP was wanting to spend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I'm going to add to this, I own a few AKG C568 short shots, and a pair of PCC160s blats them into the deck. I did an A/B comparison on the last show, and there was no comparison. The C568s cost rather more than PCC160s do; the PCC160s I regard as something of a bargain. Frankly, on moderate size stages, you may get away with a single PCC160, though you would probably need to ride the fader a bit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Out of curiosity I queried this with my Stage LX rep. It seems that Crown have discontinued the PCC160!!What surprises me more is that they've not replaced it with anything!!!!! The closest Stage have, he says, is the AKG C547, at around £200 or so, but I have NO experience with this one.... Might be worth trying the cheapie CPC ones Paul mentioned therefore... :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 these things - £31http://cpc.farnell.com/productimages/cpc/thumbnail/MP3367906-40.jpgThe ones I have from them are - £45 (very pleased with them)http://cpc.farnell.com/productimages/cpc/thumbnail/MP3320106-40.jpgor a real shure at a bit morehttp://cpc.farnell.com/productimages/cpc/thumbnail/MP3335806-40.jpg Plenty to choose from (even some in white!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shez Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Crown apparently discontinued the PCC160 several years ago... With no replacement. But it didn't seem to happen then, so I wouldn't be too sure about it now either. On the subject of putting foam etc under them, I hear people say that a lot, but my experiences don't bear it out as being worthwhile. They benefit from being right on a large flat surface (a stage) and the frequency response is skewed if they're moved away from that. The capsule itself is quite well internally isolated and so doesn't suffer too much from mechanical coupling. What they do pick up, is the acoustic sound of foot steps, which any mic will pick up. Try listening to them sat flat on the stage as someone walks across the stage, and then again whilst holding the mic an inch off the surface of the stage. Not a lot of difference in the footfalls that they pick up. Have a look at the user guide on Crown's website for more info on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Threader Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 The PCC 160s can suffer from 'tramp' where the stage itself is springy. On a solid stage you can place them flat on the stage. If you are suffering and need to place foam under the mic, I suggest you use some about 12mm thick, AND build a ramp out of gaffer tape to that the sound can roll up the ramp and into the mic itself. This achieves the required mechanical isolation but reduces any audio degradation to a minimum. I always avoid using shotguns across the stage front. They tend to give on-axis hot spots and you should always remember that shotguns have a rear pickup lobe. And its where the band are! As overheads for upstage work they are fine, for the rear pickup is in the flys, where its quiet. If PCCs are not suitable its usually better to choose a supercardiod. AKG C451 with CK3 capsules were always good, and if you've got the budget, try Sennheiser MKH50. You'll be amazed at the difference. Likewise the MKH60 shotgun knocks all the others into a cocked hat! Microphones are still an area where there is no substitute for spending money. There are budget mics that deliver an acceptable performance for the money, but if you're after quality sound - and you should be - it is always better to buy quality mics one at a time, rather than buy a fleet of second-raters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Can't really agree with that one Graham - I thought like you until I tried them, and I was frankly very pleased. As you say, you can get enough to give even coverage accross a modest stage width with 3, when all you'd get with your one 'good' one, is a nice centre stage image. As for quality - I used to go to a venue near me where they had a 160 and a beat up Tandy PZM. PFLing at the desk it was necessary to get somebody to walk up to one to find out which was which. I'd quite happily agree that some budget mics are very poor - but this is not my experience with the ones I bought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Threader Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Dear Paul There are several factors to consider when puchasing mics. Sensitivity, pickup pattern, mechanical robustness etc. For example only the PCC (Phase Coherant Cardiod) has this particular pickup pattern. All other PZMs (Pressure Zone Microphones) have a hemispherical pickup. Now whether you notice the difference, or care if you do, is entirely down to you as the user. I still stand by my original post that to get a really good performance you need to spend money on a quality product. I was aware when I made the comment that there was likely to be a flood of posts telling me that I'm wrong. Some from those who have had the benefit of a proper comparison between the cheaper and dearer models, and probably more from those who have only experienced the cheaper products and are not really in a position to judge. For example the Sennheiser K6U/ME66 is a very good shotgun mic. However when the MKH60 is used by the same engineer, in the same place, in the same space the extra clarity and 'reach' is very noticeable. This is not to denigrate the K6U/ME66, but the difference is in the much higher cost of the MKH series. At over £1000 each, few will have had the opportunity to comment. We do seem to have drifted away from the original thread of PZM v shotgun, and I think you will agree with me that future postings would be better directed to answering the question posed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamplighter Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 The ones I have from them are - £45 (very pleased with them)http://cpc.farnell.com/productimages/cpc/thumbnail/MP3320106-40.jpg Plenty to choose from (even some in white!) Quick update, CPC are out of these (RoHS issue ?) but offer MP33852 as an alternative though the web page gives no real information. They are cheaper at £38.72 and seem to me to be a RoHS compliant re-issue. They certainly perform well and are robustly made. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 ... a 160 and a beat up Tandy PZM. PFLing at the desk it was necessary to get somebody to walk up to one to find out which was which.You've got very different Tandy PZMs to the ones I've got then. The Tandy's pick up floor mechanical noise, whereas the PCCs don't. That alone makes the Tandy's undesirable for stage pickup use, in my opinion. The PCCs also pick up much further upstage, and in this respect also they exceed the performance of the AKG short shots. As the Americans would say, go figure, the short shot being outdone on their home turf... However, I do agree that the Tandy's are good mics, especially considering how little they cost, they are just not suitable for this particular purpose. For some other uses (mainly sitting on conference tables) they are perfectly fine. Despite the fact I now have better mics for the job, I still keep the Tandy's as you just never know when you'll need a few more PZMs... Thinks.... I think my Tandy's are actually Radio Shack, of USA origin... Hmmmm... I guess it's just possible they are different...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?ITAG=F...mp;doy=28m2#faq for £25 you could reegard them as disposable, or simply buy one to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.