timtheenchanteruk Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 how does everyone ring out the room when setting up, OK I use a FBX, some people like, others lothe, but thats not my point. when you are ringing out, do you have someone speaking, whilst there is ambiant noise, or try to get in when its empty and have complete silence. My though is, and the way I do it at the moment is silence, then the natural frequencys in the room are not changed by other audio and you get the rooms natural tendency for feedback. Thoughts please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benyy Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Silence...other wise whats the point in doing it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broadcast_techie Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Methinks this is going to be a 'fixed' result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertKendall Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Sorry...I assume you are talking about a feedback exterminator??if not, my answer is irrelevant. My thought is, and the way I do it at the moment is silence, then the natural frequency's in the room are not changed by other audio and you get the rooms natural tendency for feedback That is right- your feedback exterminator isn't clever, so it cant tell whether the room is silent or the drummer is playing his solo. It will take any sound that peaks or is continuous (ie. the frequency's that make up the sound of a drum roll.) Budget feedback exterminators often attempt to remove large chunks of the frequency range, making it sound dead and undesirable. Moderation: Quote Fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_korman Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Budget feedback exterminators often attempt to remove large chunks of the frequency range, making it sound dead and undesirable. I never let them - use them to notch out the worst 6 or so peaks after setting the eq. up and then lock 'em down in parametric mode. Otherwise, as you say, they stomp all over the sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 how does everyone ring out the room when setting up, OK I use a FBX, some people like, others lothe, but thats not my point.The problem with ringing out an empty auditorium is that when you have a full house, (or even a half), the audio characteristics of the space can change dramatically. Bodies are softer than seats, so they absorb more sound, they (and the lights) generate considerable heat, which changes the atmosphere so again affecting the path that sound can take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatBigHippy Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Hmmm... Depends. I put working noise but that doesn't count if I am using a feedback eliminator. Even so I only use them to deal with the worst bits and then lock it off. I'd like to do everything in silence but apartantly the last minute is when everything gets done round here!So I probably squed your results, sorry <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkPAman Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 The problem with ringing out an empty auditorium ...... All very true, but I think if I did it once the audience was in, I'd not be too popular <_< . I think the thing is not to over do it when you ring out a rig with an empty room, and keep in mind what you are going to be miking up. Nice loud, close miked things will usually need much less cutting with the graphic or parametric than something quiet. Lots of things can change the way sound behaves. I remember a gig where the singer put on a wide brimmed hat for one song, which set of all sorts of feedback in what had been until then a "safe" system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 The problem with ringing out an empty auditorium ...... All very true, but I think if I did it once the audience was in, I'd not be too popular <_< .** laughs out loud **!I wasn't suggesting we DO ring out with a full house in their seats!!! Just referring to the fact that it's tricky to do it in an empty theatre when the ambience is nowhere near that of a full one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieR Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 I would certainly start with a near silent room - to find the obvious culprits. However, if you do that then you will often find that as soon as you get a sound into one of the mics, you will start getting a ringing on a frequency which wasn't detectable under 'silent' conditions. I find a quick handclap in front of a mic can help show this one up. More of a problem in monitor land, though. Based on personal experience, I would never use a FBX unit for FOH work if at all possible. Give me a 31-band graphic or parametric anyday. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hinds Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 I generally find that most feedback will come from monitors before it will come from FOH, as one would expect, the monitors are rather closer to the mics. However in some situations it is perfectly possible to end up with feeding from FOH, in which case it tends to happen with people around and some level of background noise. This can be seen as an advantage rather than a problem, because if you have a frequency on the edge of ringing and somone drops a tool say, it can let the frequency ring at a much lower gain than you might normally expect. Some people do have a tendancy to keep on hacking though. A max of 4 cuts and I'm done thank you, any more than that and there is something more serious that needs to be looked at with FOH. With mons I'll allow 6 or even 8 if the drummer is particularly deaf but that's exception rather than rule Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 I think the problem with this thread is that everbody, including the OP are talking about different processes. I suspect some people are talking about automated systems with pink noise and empty rooms, while others are talking about increasing gain, finding the offending frequency when the system takes off, then increasing gain again over and over without making the channel eq into something totally ridiculous. Other people are clearly talking about parametric systems with sharp notches, so not a lot makes sense as we are giving answers to the wrong questons. So - what does the OP mean when he says 'ringing out'? Then we can give some targetted answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueShift Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 I think when referring to ringing out he means having a mic onstage/wherever its gonna be used, and then upping the gain until frequencies start to ring and then notching them out on a graphic to give him overall more gain before feedback. This is, as Chris has alreayd mentioned, typically much more of a problem with monitors than FOH. I find that provided my stage and FOH positioning are done well, and im not having to gain up lots to compensate for overly quiet sources, that FOH feedback is not a problem. However, in monitor world your EQ is definately much more of a tool for eliminating feedback and giving you more headroom. on FOH I generally only notch frequencies that sound bad with respect to the room, as opposed to the mics. In an ideal world id have a pair of EQs on FOH, one graphic to make room adjustments and a parametric to use for shaping the overall FOH sound to suit the programme material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timtheenchanteruk Posted January 21, 2007 Author Share Posted January 21, 2007 I think when referring to ringing out he means having a mic onstage/wherever its gonna be used, and then upping the gain until frequencies start to ring and then notching them out on a graphic to give him overall more gain before feedback. that is what I am meaning, I work mainly with area mics on the stage, and any monitors are only putting through either the pre-recorded music, or the main bits of the band in the pit. I do use a behringer feedback destroyer, but ONLY after setting everything up properly, with the unit bypassed, then in ringing out using the single shot mode, the fixing, only rarely do I use the audio mode.so form the answers so far, it depends on if you are using an FBX, or a graphic to how its done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hinds Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 so from the answers so far, it depends on if you are using an FBX, or a graphic to how its done.Yes that's basically the case, because a graphic has intelligence (in most cases) via the operator. It can 'see' that the ringing is a dude dropping a ladder. The FBX can't, so it notches. Then something else happens, so it notches again. Even in single shot mode the notching is more extreme than would normally happen with a human operator. A 3dB notch is usually enough to kill feedback, 6 at worst, and yet many FBX will apply a 12dB or more cut. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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