Band in Orchestra Pit

[dfinn]

Hi,

 

Just want to check I am going about the the right way.

 

For our production of "Godspell", the band will be in front of the stage to one side, not really a pit, just on the floor. The MD has specified that she is having 2 Lead guitars, 2 basses (why two I don't know, apparantly 2 parts), 2 keyboards and a drum kit.

 

I said ok we will just run them all through their own active D.I. box, and mic the drum kit with a drum mic set meaning the guitarists/ keys players wouldn't need amps in the pit and I get full control of band levels, WHOOPEEEEE!!!!!

 

I would then give them 4 foldback wedges and run the intrumental mix back through these, and not the vocals due to proximity to the actors (feedback from radio mics which I might not be able to hear from FOH position). This would mean they could hear themselves without trouble and mean I don't have to mic up their amps, risking feedback again.

 

I just thought I would post this to check I would doing it the normal way, I suppose in theatre every show is different, but is there something blindingly obvious I have missed. Only thing I can think is the musos will complain they can't get the proper sound out of their guitar without an amp, well I think I would have to tell them tough.

 

Thanks,

 

Daniel

[opman]

If I were you I'd get hold of some sort of baffle screening for the drumkit. The natural acoustic coming from the percussion might be somewhat overpowering for people close by.

[Nicktaylor]

I would have thought that all your guitarists will have their own amps as will the keyboard! So I would not dream you are going to be able to control their levels. the problem with the band at the same level as the audience and nearer than the cast is it will be difficult to balance the ssound for those on the band side. I would suggest some serios sound deadening material between the audience and the band . Then at least the band will be able to hear them selves

[dfinn]

Hi,

 

Nick - I don't know what you mean in the second sentence, but if I run D.I. boxes, they won't need their amps, and they will just have foldback to hear themselves. That right?

 

The FOH speakers will be infront of the band, but I see what you mean about the imbalance from left to right. I suggested having the band in a separate room, they weren't having it.

 

Thanks,

 

Daniel

[Nicktaylor]

Not that into sound so I maybe wrong. The simplest type of DI box comprises little more than an impedance matching transformer with a balanced output. I am not sure why you think they will not have amps. Have they told you? That is why I say you will not be able to control their levels without asking them. They will still have an amp and it is not in a pit!

[dfinn]

Hi,

 

Whenever I D.I. instrument, I just run from their output into the D.I. box, then run and XLR lead from the D.I. box to the mixer. Therefore their sound is sent through the FOH PA, and I can control the band mix levels from the mixing desk.

 

Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

 

Thanks,

 

Daniel

[CPlater1]

I think the OP is saying that he doesn't particularly want to let the band use their amps. You would then feed the instrument signal into DI which goes into the system - therefore no amps

[Bobbsy]

One problem you're likely to have is that, with electric guitars, the amplifier is an integral part of the over-all sound. They can sound flat and uninteresting on a pure DI and I suspect you'll get opposition from the guitarists if you insist on a purely DI sound. This is less of an issue (usually) with bass guitars, though you'll have to make sure your sound system is adequate on the low notes...many school systems aren't.

 

Anyway, with electric guitar it's far more common for them to use their own amps and for the FOH mix to mic the speakers. If they have a smallish amp with the right sound, this can work best.

 

I'd agree with the previous posts suggesting the use of sound baffles around the drum kit (which will be LOUD) and hopefully the whole band.

 

As for monitoring, something you might consider would be borrowing or renting a couple of headphone amps and letting the band wear cans. Depending on what auxes you have available on your board, you may end up with several monitor mixes. One issue I can foresee (and which using cans would fix) is that at least the MD (and possibly other members of the band) may well need at least some of the vocals in their monitor mix. Headphone amps can be rented pretty cheaply and have got me out of many a hole...and musos tend to think they look cool in cans!

 

Do allocate a goodly amount of your tech time for setting up the monitor mix(es). In my experience, monitor world can take longer than FOH stuff!

 

Bob

[paulears]

There isn't really anything wrong with what you are proposing, but the snag is that Godspell is a ROCK Opera, of sorts - some songs are quiet, while some are a bit distorty-reverby-loudish - so they will want to have stomp boxes of some sort. The snag is volume levels. If they are playing through more budget processors, then hitting the distort/overdrive button starts the expected sound, but with a massive increase in volume, which they can adjust with their amp. How will you do this - means a reset for each song and a send adjust too - might be a bit much. If made to, they could play with monitors or in-ears - BUT will expect exactly the right mix, the same each night and I'd bet this is not something the FOH op will relish!

 

As for two basses. I'm surprised. Two basses always sounds really, really bad as they just fight against each other. Godspell does not require 2 basses. It isn't as if it's scored for harmony bass - so will be dreadful. Sounds like the teacher appeasing two players to me?

 

If you can - why not get a person in the 'pit' with them do look after sound?

 

May be the best way - sitting next to the MD?

[misterbassman]

99% of guitarists will want to run through an amp and have it mic'd or possibly use some sort of emulation (POD etc), this is because half of an electric guitars sound is developed within the amp.

[dfinn]

Hi,

 

Yeh, I thought that would be a problem, they would be fine with effects pedals as I could run those inline with the guitar and D.I. box. I think I will have another word with the MD and get them to ask the guitarists what they want. It's a shame as it would make my life so much easier for the show.

 

Thanks,

 

Daniel

[Just Some Bloke]

If we're talking about a school hall here, you may well find the best way to do it is to not mic anything at all in the pit and let the band balance themselves. I'd DI the keys just to put something back into the on-stage monitors so the cast can keep in tune. Don't put this channel through FOH, though. That's really all you'll need unless we're talking about a really big room.

 

It's a musical, so the most important thing is to get the lyrics heard so spend your money on decent radio mics.

[TAG1960]

I Agree, In any school production you must start with the sung vocal as your guide level. Once you know what volume you can get that up to , you can bring up the orchestra to complement this. I also can't see the need for 2 basses and think that the amount of LF you will create will be picked up on every open mic in the room!!! Good luck Tho>

[MarkPAman]

Something like the V-Amp or or V - Amp Pro could be the way to go with guitars. They've worked for me in the past. They don't sound too bad and would leave you in control of the volume.

There is a bass / keyboard version too.

 

Another thing I did once was to have the band in the theatre, but their amps in a room next door. And that time we had a drummer with a decent electric kit! ;)

[The Boogie Man]

Mark beat me to it , but if you can sort an electric kit and a couple of pods ( guitar/bass ) you have no acoustic sound from the band. Put them into a mixer, then to cans, and their mixed output can be fed straight to foh. physically then you can put the band anywhere. Also you can then half each bass signal ;)