First aid kit

[paulears]

the misunderstanding of the 'rules' makes the idea of first aid fall apart sometimes. Last year somebody stood under a lantern and a large piece of black stuff - maybe crisped up confetti, fell off into her eye. The first aid boxes all had the latest sterile seals on the squirty bottles, but the appointed first aid person refused to slooosh (is there a proper word?) out her eye, as 1. it had to be self-administered, and 2. he wasn't allowed to hold the eye lids open for her. As she couldn't see for the streams of tears she had the option of going to hospital???

 

I remembered the bit in my FAW where some piece of aged legislation protects the first aider with good intentions, so I washed her eye out myself, with the first aider gibbering about how many rules I just broke. All it needed was a good squirt to wash the object out and she was fine. It's getting a little pointless haveing a first aid qualification when you can't actually do the first aid, and just have to pass things to the injured person to do themselves.

 

I've always worked on the principal that sometimes you have to step in, maybe even putting yourself at risk, to do 'the right thing'. I for one, couldn't live with myself knowing I'd not done what I could. I got told off at college a few years ago for putting myself at risk. A student ran in saying somebody utside had cut her wrists. I went out to see this girl with blood everywhere and a razor blade in her hand. I remembered the section in the course - apply pressure - so that is what I did, using my thumb to close the wound and stop the flood. It kind of worked - it got a lot slower. The ambulance arrived and they carted her off. My crime was not protecting myself first by finding gloves and protective clothing. In ideal circumstances of course I would have done this, there just wasn't time. Crazy. The ambulance people explained that it wasn't that bad and wasn't a real problem - then they explained the way to do it if you mean it - and I don't think that would be something my thumb would have been any good for!

[Tomo]

the misunderstanding of the 'rules' makes the idea of first aid fall apart sometimes. Last year somebody stood under a lantern and a large piece of black stuff - maybe crisped up confetti, fell off into her eye. The first aid boxes all had the latest sterile seals on the squirty bottles, but the appointed first aid person refused to slooosh (is there a proper word?) out her eye, as 1. it had to be self-administered, and 2. he wasn't allowed to hold the eye lids open for her. As she couldn't see for the streams of tears she had the option of going to hospital???

The way I see it:

A) Could I live with myself if there was something I could have done to help them and I didn't?

B) Could I live with myself if they decided to sue me because I tried?

 

A - Definately not.

B - I'd be bitterly disappointed, but yes.

 

That makes the decision fairly easy.

[GUSTie]

I carry a very comprehensive firstaid kit with me including airways, bvm, splints and collers etc. I have a small personal use kit for when a bag with O2 and stuff is overkill which simpley contains

-plasters

-wipes

-no9 dressing

-triangular bandage

-2 eyepods (saline)

-steristrips

-gloves

-pills (parasetamol and asprin)

 

this kit is soley for me and is not ever an "official" FA kit, so having pills in it is not a problem as I can give them to myself no problem. if I am asked to provide an "official" kit, or be a first aider on site then I bring the big one.

 

its all that I need if I am only doing first aid for myself.

[TashK]

I just carry a little "camping trip" kit from Boots. Depending on the show that I'm doing I may or may not carry some extra things with me as well, but it'll all depend on the situation.

[johnhuson]

the misunderstanding of the 'rules' makes the idea of first aid fall apart sometimes. Last year somebody stood under a lantern and a large piece of black stuff - maybe crisped up confetti, fell off into her eye. The first aid boxes all had the latest sterile seals on the squirty bottles, but the appointed first aid person refused to slooosh (is there a proper word?) out her eye, as 1. it had to be self-administered, and 2. he wasn't allowed to hold the eye lids open for her. As she couldn't see for the streams of tears she had the option of going to hospital???

The way I see it:

A) Could I live with myself if there was something I could have done to help them and I didn't?

B) Could I live with myself if they decided to sue me because I tried?

 

A - Definately not.

B - I'd be bitterly disappointed, but yes.

 

That makes the decision fairly easy.

 

I think these two posts sum up the 'rules' completely. I'd like to think that in a sane world there would still be some conscience by people initiating legal actions against First Aiders, at the end of the day that first aider probably tried their best to save his/her loved ones, and quite often are successful despite breaking the 'rules'.

 

I find the speed of change in 'fashion' of first aid is beyond belief to me. For example I'm due to go for a renewal for my FAW in a couple of weeks, some of my colleagues were on the course last week and surprise surprise (as an example) the procedure for CPR has changed again, this has changed in the period between my last two FAW renewals! So the procedure has changed but if I needed to carry out CPR on someone three weeks ago I would (hopefully) of remembered how to carry it out from my previous training. Would I of stood a better chance of saving thats persons life if I had known the new procedure......I doubt it and at least I tried my best rather than stood there worrying about if this was the right way!

 

I'd hate to see this country go the way of others where legal proceddings are so likely, that fear of financial/personal damages are greater than morals and the need to try your best to do the right thing.

[lightsource]

I'd like to think that in a sane world there would still be some conscience by people initiating legal actions against First Aiders

I'd hate to see this country go the way of others where legal proceedings are so likely, that fear of financial/personal damages are greater than morals and the need to try your best to do the right thing.

 

Tomo - Agreed, your points are totally valid ...but... you may be sued for your actions (sad, but true).

 

Johnhuson

 

Sane world ;) conscience :( unfortunately not. The general public today has Pound signs flashing in front or their faces. You may hate to see this country go the way of others, but I'm afraid to say, I think it already has. :)

 

Back to the original poster, Yes I have a first aid kit, and we also carry CO2 fire extinguishers, but no-one is actually TRAINED to use them :o

 

Edited for Typo's

[MrPete]

Johnhuson, as a member of St John Ambulance (as well as a trained first aider for work), I can say that the reasoning behind changing the procedure for CPR at the beginning of August 2006 was to make it easier to remember and better for the casualty, but you would have caused no harm in using the old procedures. Like all things that are researched & developed, the people who research first aid techniques have found that the new method is more effective (remember - effective, safe, prompt). If you think of how much anything gets updated these days - whether it's your computer's operating system, labelling on your groceries or GCSE/A-Level marking schemes - a lot can happen and change in 3 years (the length of time the FAW lasts)!

 

Anyway, with regards to Paulears' post about First Aiders saying they're not allowed to do something to help, they literally read the rule book and interpreted it wrongly ;)

If you had to give CPR to someone after your FAW ran out, you'd still have a go! As long as what you do is effective, safe and prompt and causes no danger to yourself (always your main priority), then doing something is better than standing by and doing nothing. And from what you said about the incident Paul, you did the right thing.

 

Also, lightsource, if you're employed, I'd ask the boss about that - you don't want to find out when it's too late how to do things or that it should've been you who should've done something! :)

Apologies for the OT bit, but I felt it was justified to say.

 

If you're employed, then talk to your employer about what first aid provisions you should have with you - whether in your own venue, touring, on the road, wherever. If you are working, then where you are stood/sat is your workplace & your employer has a duty of care for you under the law.

If you're self-employed, then contact any of the UK's leading first aid providers - St John Ambulance, St Andrew's Ambulance Association or the British Red Cross

 

All three have very comprehensive information and I'm sure would be happy to help with even the smallest of enquiry :(

[slipstream]

As far as CPR goes - you are dealing with someone who is legally dead - anything you do that improves the situation is just fine - broken ribs from the compressions is better than the mahogany overcoat that awaits otherwise.

 

Last time out on FAW, the legal standpoint was if you tried to your best ability inany situation you are untouchable as far as the courts stand.

 

Sam

[DavidLee]

... and we also carry CO2 fire extinguishers, but no-one is actually TRAINED to use them

OT, I know, but that is a big problem. If you've never used one then the chances of putting out a fire with a CO2 extinguisher are probably minimal. You have a very short time of operation and accuracy of application is crucial. Without proper training, the instinct is to shoot from much too far away to be effective and chances are you'll hold onto parts of the extinguisher that will give you a severe cold burn into the bargain.

 

David

[Tomo]

... and we also carry CO2 fire extinguishers, but no-one is actually TRAINED to use them

OT, I know, but that is a big problem. If you've never used one then the chances of putting out a fire with a CO2 extinguisher are probably minimal.

Agreed!

CO2 extinguishers behave very strangely, and if you're not expecting the effects, you'll get very surprised!

For example, on many fires the flames actually blow back towards you for a moment as you open the valve.

 

During my first training that surprised me enough to stop the extinguisher and I had to try again.

[GUSTie]

the problem with people suing (in the UK at least) is not with CPR, unless you are a total and complete moron, they can't. the problem is with other stuff like washing out eyes and treating wounds. if you are working as a first aider then get insurance. problem solved. I have been practising First Aid for about 6 years now and have been doing it in work and with StAAC for about 4. I have been sued an astonishing 0 times, and only know 1 person who has been and that one failed. there are urban legends about people suing for, there shirt being taken off during defibulation, relatives suing for breaking ribs during unsuccessful CPR, and even for assault from a FA checking level of consciousness., they are all a load of rubbish. as long as you stick to your training then you are OK.

 

its as simple as this

 

am I trained to do this, Yes

is it going to be effective, Probable

are they going to suffer harm or increase the severity of there condition if I do not, yes

 

therefor I am going to do it, and am safe, I can not be sued and if I am then who cares I have insurance. (or my work has it for me)

 

get trained and treat people, if your helping then you are OK. Its not like we are talking about giving drugs, putting tubes down peoples throats or doing open hart surgery.