Ike Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Today I have been PAT testing some kit at a local pub which included some disco lights using multi-pole mains connectors. There are however two problems with these: 1, There is no current/voltage ratings on them and I have no idea what they are. 2, All cable mounted connectors appear to be shrouded plugs and all panel mounted connectors sockets. i.e. cables have two male connectors the possibility of having a live, unconnected plug and also connection of two sources together. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 cables have two male connectors the possibility of having a live, unconnected plugIf the male connector is not fully shrouded to the extent that it's not possible to make contact with the current-carrying parts, then I'd have thought that's a PAT fail right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ike Posted January 7, 2004 Author Share Posted January 7, 2004 http://www.maplin.co.uk/media/largeimages/1386i0.jpg Just found a pic on the maplin website, who only seem to sell panel mounted sockets and cable mounted plugs. The connector is shrouded to the extent that my fingers will not reach live contacts, smaller objects on the other hand may. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ike Posted January 7, 2004 Author Share Posted January 7, 2004 Forgot to say that maplin call it P551 and its rated for 6A at 250V. Still the plug to plug cables are bothering me, is this a standard setup in low end disco stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Ah, the old 8-way Bulgin ... very common on cheap-n-cheerful disco lights ... I suppose you could say that the shrouding around the connector is sufficient to prevent contact with the pins and allow it through the PAT test. Not sure I'd like to be the one putting it to the test in a courtroom, though ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny baby Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 I didnt think these fell under the PAT inspection, I was always told that theres no means of testing them, and therefore, exsempt from the test. vince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 I didnt think these fell under the PAT inspection, I was always told that theres no means of testing them, and therefore, exsempt from the test.Just because you can't test it doesn't mean it shouldn't be tested. You may need to make up an adaptor box but it should certainly be tested. AFAIK there are NO exemptions to PAT testing, if something is mains powered it needs testing. If the male connector is not fully shrouded to the extent that it's not possible to make contact with the current-carrying parts, then I'd have thought that's a PAT fail right away If the connector is sold as a mains connector and Bulgin have the necessary approval certificates then it'll be fine. To check for contact 'touchability' you use a 'Standard Finger'. Consider for a moment something like a 63A CEEform, the holes down to the contacts on a socket are pretty large, the contacts are probably as touchable as those on the Bulgin 'disco' connector. PAT testing does not require you to second guess the original equipment designers. If the equipment is recent, in its original condition and CE marked then you should not need to make any modifications. As for the Bulgin connectors, you can get cable mounted sockets, see their website Bulgin Website for PX0596/S although very few people use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomLyall Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 sorry jus had to post this one... quoted from the bulgin website: This long established series of connectors still find many uses where small, but lower current connections are needed. The range consists of circular and rectangular styles with 3, 4, 6 and 8 poles, in a choice of configurations, with current ratings up to 6 Amps. The 8 pole round has become the standard connector for the disco and lighting industry and is available in cable and chassis mounting versions. since when was this a standard in the lighting industry????? hmm maybe they mean cheap disco equipment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew C Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 since when was this a standard in the lighting industry????? Only a few years ago, when the Patt 23 was a good, modern lantern. Ahh...the perspective of age. :( BTW, the Bulgin connectors, including those on Le Maitra pyroflash systems are CR@P, but common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light Console Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 since when was this a standard in the lighting industry?????Since Pulsar put them on Minipaks!?!Visual test to one side, electrically they can pass, just test with the chaser unit, cable and light box as three tests. Or so the examiner told me when I took C&G 2377 PAT testing this year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 Brings back memories of lightscreens and traffic lights!! The old standard was panel mounted sockets and cable mounted plugs. Recently Bulgin made the panel mounted plug and cable mounted sockets available, to satisfy PAT and like testing. The connectors by bulgin are 250V 5 or 6 amp mains rated The wiring is likley to be in 7 core 5A rated flex and likley though not certainly to be wiredpin........... purpose1 Earth2 Chan 43 chan 34 chan 25 chan 16 NC7 Neutral8 Neutral Channel current should not excede 2.5 A as there are only two neutrals to carry the current. Some four way adaptor boxes use a pcb inside which connects pin 6 to Earth.Recent thoughts were that the cables should be made plug to socket and appliances alterred to suit. new cables are plug to socket in the shops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilf dLampy Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 With that wiring, total current of the four things you have plugged in should not exceed 5 amps, as you only have one earth core. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew C Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 With that wiring, total current of the four things you have plugged in should not exceed 5 amps, as you only have one earth core.The wiring is likley to be in 7 core 5A rated flex and likley though not certainly to be wiredpin You should only draw 5A per circuit because it's 5A cable! Edited to clarify Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 With that wiring, total current of the four things you have plugged in should not exceed 5 amps, as you only have one earth core.Slightly playing devils advocate here but what makes you think that the total load is limited by the size of the earth conductor? In a 3 phase installation the earth conductor is only the same size as any of the line conductors ie one third of the total load. In a 4 sq mm T&E installation cable the earth conductor is only 1.5 sq mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianl Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 . In a 4 sq mm T&E installation cable the earth conductor is only 1.5 sq mm.and because of this a lot of buisness premises / venues will not alow the use of twin and earth. the regs state that up to about 10mm the earth should be the same size as the phase anywat back on topic , when testing these conectors be aware that the pins in the panel mount connectors can over time move so they are slightly proud or flush with the plastic rather than slightly recesed. it's easy to miss and easy to get a shock if you pick up a controler that is on but has no lights connected yet, or brush past a link on connector when it is in use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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