Colourblind

[saturnx21]

Well I have had I chap working for me on and off for the last few years first as a lighting operater and more recently as a lighting designer and he quite literally comes out with so extraordinary lighting shows!

 

And last night whilst at the pub I herd him mention something to do with him saying about is colourblind condition which I queried with him as I had no idea that he was! I'm unsure as to how he overcomes this when designing and programing light shows!

but he certainly does a good job!

[GUSTie]

I could be wrong but do they not check colourblindness in electricians before they can register?

 

I was talking to a lawyer recently about disabilities and hiring, (we are going through this at the moment) and he was saying that it is legally OK for us to discriminate against colourblind techs for TV. a bit off topic I know but we were told that if they are doing camera work, editing, lighting, or wiring then we can reject them just for being colourblind.

 

I will try and dig it out but he did give me case references for it all, so it has been to Cort.

[BlueShift]

This kind of thing is always a tough topic. Aside from the applications where colorblindness *might* (depending on severity etc..) affect a persons work. There are times where any colorblindness is going to cause problems (eg. calibrating cameras for broadcast etc..) and other times where it could be dangerous (high voltage electrical work etc..) so im sure its not a clear cut topic.

 

I have worked with people who are colorblind before with no problems, but it was all in situations where they had another means of overcoming it. There are some situations where unless you have someone else to confirm things for you, there's no way to get around it.

[Ben...]

There are times where any colorblindness is going to cause problems (eg. calibrating cameras for broadcast etc..) and other times where it could be dangerous (high voltage electrical work etc..)

 

Well, I've met a TV studio engineer with some Red/Green colour blindness. He was quite aware of it, and it didn't seem to cause any problems. As in all things, it's a question of degree; totally monochromatic vision probably would be a problem for some parts of the job, but I believe that's vanishingly rare. And I believe that part of the reason for the all-new phase colour hilarity explosion is that the new colours are much harder for the colour-impaired to differentiate.

 

I was talking to a lawyer recently [...] we were told that if they are doing camera work, editing, lighting, or wiring then we can reject them just for being colourblind.

Are you sure this was an employment lawyer? That sounds a little dubious to me, what with the new Disability Discrimination Act I'd have thought they'd need to make reasonable adjustments. And if someone had been successfully working as an editor, lx or wireman then you'd have trouble explaining why it was suddenly a problem when they worked for you.

[Nicktaylor]

I doubt if anyone who is seriously colour blind could do my job , The are many times when I have to make a quality call on pictures that have been filmed incorrectly, and it would be impossible for some one with colour blindness to differentiate. I dont think colourblindness is something that gets worse so it is unlikely that you could get a job which then becomes impossible to do. Wereas if you start to suffer deafness then you could end up not being able to do the work you could originally .

[Ben...]

it would be impossible for some one with colour blindness to differentiate

Surely that's a bit sweeping if you don't know much about colourblindness. A little bit like saying someone with dyslexia could never be a newspaper subeditor (they can.) As has been stated previously on this thread, with enough commitment it's surprising how people can work around their disablities.

[Ken Coker]

If we think hard about the essence of lighting design, what is it exactly that a colour blind lighting designer could not do? Colour? What is it?

 

Similarly, consider a blind lighting designer. The hardest bit of a lighting design is the conceptual/imagining part; what is to stop a blind person doing this? Now, it may well be that to implement the lighting design he/she may need some kind of amanuensis, but that's no real issue.

 

Ok, back to hegemony.....

 

 

KC

[Nicktaylor]

it would be impossible for some one with colour blindness to differentiate

Surely that's a bit sweeping if you don't know much about colourblindness. A little bit like saying someone with dyslexia could never be a newspaper subeditor (they can.) As has been stated previously on this thread, with enough commitment it's surprising how people can work around their disablities.

So how can a person who is colourblind make sure what they produce is the correct colour for the majority of the population?

[paulears]

...but following in a similar vein, perhaps we should have deaf MDs, armless flymen, and blind dsms?

 

I know one uni has successfully coped with a blind stage management student, but in all seriousness, I've always thought that they'd struggle getting a job - but with the TMA and others now campaigning for the end to personal recommendations for technical jobs, in favour of proper advertised and interviewed staff, taking the DDA into account.

 

I personally think that the exisiting old boys network works really well - after all, you call somebody at 6pm and they can start for the evening show. If this practice is banned (although I'm not quite sure how this would be done) it will be an interesting time. I suppose and venue signed up to the TMA agreement could simply be told the practice of personal recommendation is out!

 

People ability to do the job is the point in question - if any disability means they can't do it then you either accept a lower ability level, often meaning the work that can't be done is shared between others, or say no after the interview and risk the weight of the DDA police.

 

I have no problem with anybody who is disabled - I have a pretty good record - but it has to be a case of applying common sense. The colour blind sound op can be coped with, but I'm not sure LX is a good career for a colour blind person. Somebody wheelchair bound could be a good board op, but not someone who has to lift heavy items.

[Ben...]

...but following in a similar vein, perhaps we should have deaf MDs, armless flymen, and blind dsms?

Maybe not, but hearing impaired MDs, flymen with back problems (missing fingers, dodgy shoulders etc.) and visually impaired DSMs aren't impossible. All these things come in degrees; "colourblind" doesn't mean monochromatic vision.

 

I personally think that the exisiting old boys network works really well

I'd say that that is an entirely different set of questions to the one at hand...

 

I have no problem with anybody who is disabled

Don't tell me - some of your best friends are disabled? :D

 

but I'm not sure LX is a good career for a colour blind person

Maybe you should meet the chap further up this thread who was describing how he's working as an LX with colour blindness, and explain to him why you're not sure he should be doing his job.

 

Somebody wheelchair bound could be a good board op, but not someone who has to lift heavy items.

Oh, I dunno, I reckon some of the heavy lifters can probably be trained to use a board - maybe balance donuts on the faders?

[Ken Coker]

ummm........I once worked and lived with the great Griff, who had one arm and was a mighty flyman - and an even mightier drinker.

 

I often work with someone who has profound hearing impairment and is a fabulous sound engineer, and no bad lecturer either.

 

I have just done a show and one of the ablest guys on the crew had Tourette's Syndrome.

 

What's the issue?

 

As for colour............in theatre who cares? Long ago I gave up pretending "blue" meant "night".

 

KC

[Ben...]

So how can a person who is colourblind make sure what they produce is the correct colour for the majority of the population?

Training and practice.

 

...

[Nicktaylor]

Where do you get trained for this?

[paulears]

The point I'm trying to make, and probably not making a very good job of it, is that nowadays we seem to be promoting the view that anyone can do anything -but the reality is they can't, but we're making new rules to make sure they can, and to some degree discriminate against conventional wisdom.

 

Ken's example is actually a good one. A one armed flyman is perfectly possible, and The Great Griff may well have been an excellent flyman. So in his case, if he was seeking employment, he would have an advantage being one-armed. Employing him would make the statistics for the number of disabled people employed look better - so a council run venue would look upon it as a positive feature. H&S would be in a quandry. Can he do the job safely. I don't know, but hauling a rope with one arm and putting the break on or off with a spare leg could make the risk assessment a bit shaky.

 

Just to put the record straight - I have spent all afternoon helping a really keen bloke I met recently - he has cerebral palsy and is a keen amateur film maker - we've been putting our heads together trying to work out ways he can pan and tilt a camera. He is a wizz with after effects and 3D cad, but he won't ever become a cameraman. Despite what we've done today, his disability effectively stops him getting a job where manual dexterity is required.

 

If he came to me for an interview - what would I do? He can operate the camera, he can with patience cable it up and prep it. He can't attach it to the ped, and once it is on, he doesn't have the strength to control it.

 

Now - what we've discovered is that he can use a camera crane - the extra weight and momentum smooths out the jerk control inputs, and within limits he can shoot acceptable images. I couldn't, however use him in a shoot as a cameraman. Maybe an employer could purchase the extra equipment needed for him to use, but would he be as good as someone else?

 

My comments about the TMA trying to stop mates rates links to the need to interview, at which point everybody panics and feels insecure picking the best candidate if another has a disability.

 

 

remember the Life of Brian

JUDITH:

Here! I-- I've got an idea. Suppose you agree that he can't actually have babies, not having a womb, which is nobody's fault, not even the Romans', but that he can have the right to have babies.

FRANCIS:

Good idea, Judith. We shall fight the oppressors for your right to have babies, brother. Sister. Sorry.

REG:

What's the point?

FRANCIS:

What?

REG:

What's the point of fighting for his right to have babies when he can't have babies?!

FRANCIS:

It is symbolic of our struggle against oppression.

[Ben...]

Where do you get trained for this?

Well, I've been on some excellent training courses at BBC Wood Norton, along with a colour blind engineer who had considerably more success lining up grade 1 monitors than I did. Even if you have trouble with red/green you can still tell when flesh-tones look wrong. And since we seem to have seen the last of Plumbicons, these days the biggest colour problems on raw footage tend to be overexposure, white balance 'issues', and hideous compression artifacts, rather than all the people turning green.

 

Paul; the point I'm trying to make is that while some people can't really do some things, saying things like "people with x can't do y" is rather too general and doesn't account for the ins and outs of individual cases. Consider each person on their merits, and be willing to make reasonable adjustments (which is, I believe, what the law requires) seems pretty reasonable to me. Rejecting people out of hand, without even interviewing them (as people earlier in the thread said they thought they could do) doesn't strike me as the right thing to do.

 

And, on the interview thing, I really don't want to sound patronising, but if at your interviews "everybody panics and feels insecure picking the best candidate if another has a disability" then I'd suggest some good training in interview skills and employment law. (Otherwise you're like those untrained "Health and Safety" committees who panic and ban conker fights.)