Gunshot wounds - Squibs

[Rory]

The college I'm at are putting on a performance of Popcorn, and I need to find someway of making an explosion in a blood bag, we've been thinking about making the bag from cling-film - cheap, easily destructable, or a condom - more expensive, but easier to fill and still as destructable.

 

The person being shot will be by a handgun to the lower rib right rib cage. Our director however has a thing for blood and guts, and sex (but thankfully not at the same time! ) so it needs to be quite dramatic and overdone.

 

I've heard about a small explosive called a Squib, but I've neither found information on where to buy/how to make one, either that or any other ideas would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks, Rory K

[Andrew C]

bag from cling-film - cheap, easily destructible, or a condom - more expensive, but easier to fill and still as destructible.

God, I hope not! :blink:

 

However, back on topic, try looking at "micro dets", the non-fragmenting variety. Available from Le Maitra, and others I'm sure. You will need to take advice on their use.

[WiLL]

particularly if you're exploding them whilst they are being worn by a cast member, unless it's one you don't like :blink:

[Ricky]

If u are looking into using pyro do lyncons 1 day course even more so as they are going to be attached to a person. or seek advice from a pyrotechnician

[SeanT]

Not to state the obvious, but have you thought about using a paintball gun? This does depend on not too many people being able to see the gun, and the person firing being vaguely able to aim / not too far away. OK, it comes with risks, but it saves strapping pyro to someone..... said paintball gun can of course make a big red blob and break the bag if the bag can be hit reliably.

[Brian]

As others have said take advice but make sure it's professional advice and not just from someone who once read in a book how to do it.

 

Words like 'micro' and 'non-fragmenting' give a bit of a false sense of security.

 

There's more than enough energy there to blow off things like ends of fingers and likewise enough energy to drive bits of debris into flesh.

[andy_s]

There's more than enough energy there to blow off things like ends of fingers and likewise enough energy to drive bits of debris into flesh.

 

very good advice from Brian. We used to use microdets instead of maroons to fire a small confetti cannon, which would fire confetti up to about 8 feet in the air, so they are quite powerful. When they are used for bullet hits for film and TV, they are set up by qualified armourers and special effects people and filmed in short bursts. the actors are protected by padding and armour plating. so a very different environment to a live play, much easier to control. Also, the costumes will be trashed - both by the blood and by the damage from the explosion, so talk to the costume supervisor about how to manage that.

[Rory]

Just like to say thank you, after talking with my Stage Manager we've been told that we won't be allowed to use pyrotechnics, and after much getting soaked, and covered in fake blood we've found a cheap alternative, however, we've now been told that he wants lots of guts to spill out! The life of college, never ends haha.

 

Thanks for commenting, it was useful to have a place to start from, as I literally had no clue about anything explosion-wise before hand.

 

Rory

[Ellis]

A very old trick was for the actor to have a ring with a short pin on it. As they are shot, they grasp the 'wound' and the pin bursts a blood-bag concealed below the costume. Continued pressure can make a hell of a lot of blood appear quickly.

 

A real hand-gun at point-blank range will have a tiny entry wound, but would blow half the victim's side off as an exit wound. You are not going to achieve that on stage - even Hollywood studios tone down the gore in most cases.

[DC FX]

Another old trick we used to use in the industry was to fill a small resevoir with blood guts etc... and then using a solenoid valve and a 12V battery you can spray the blood and guts quite far obviously depending on pressure.

 

It's a good and cheap way of creating the same effect as a Squib.

 

By the way a squib is an american term for a Det and they are mostly supplied by American companies of which you will need a license not only to purchase them but to store and to use

 

Regards

[zonino]

Not to state the obvious, but have you thought about using a paintball gun? This does depend on not too many people being able to see the gun, and the person firing being vaguely able to aim / not too far away. OK, it comes with risks, but it saves strapping pyro to someone..... said paintball gun can of course make a big red blob and break the bag if the bag can be hit reliably.

 

no no no no no!

 

paint ball guns are nowhere near accurate enough, and the dyes in the balls WILL stain your retina and make you blind!

 

for the blood itself, St Johns ambulance do supply it, but will get rather costly for a long run!

 

http://www.stjohnsupplies.co.uk/products/s...on.asp?cat=TACS

[mac.calder]

Just like to say thank you, after talking with my Stage Manager we've been told that we won't be allowed to use pyrotechnics, and after much getting soaked, and covered in fake blood we've found a cheap alternative, however, we've now been told that he wants lots of guts to spill out! The life of college, never ends haha.

 

The simple answer to this sort of demand is "No.". Appart from the "How the hell do you plan on that working?" question, there are also concerns about slipery items on stage floors. Directors like to aim for the stars. Occasionally, you just need to say no. You are not qualified as a Hollywood Special Effects Engineer, you are not using a camera to control the angle, and you are not able to stop the show, strap on the device, then restart. On stage, blood is rarely a necessity to begin with.

 

That and I believe half your audience will walk out the door should you go all out.

[paulears]

but have you thought about using a paintball gun?

paint ball guns are nowhere near accurate enough, and the dyes in the balls WILL stain your retina and make you blind!

 

http://www.stjohnsupplies.co.uk/products/s...on.asp?cat=TACS

 

The advice to not use a paintball gun is sound - but for all the wrong reasons. Paintball guns are simply large bore air weapons - firing one without people wearing appropriate protective clothing from short range is frankly derranged. If you miss, and hit a hand, wrist, or any other place with little padding, then you will create huge painfull weals. Accuracy on stage type distances is perfectly acceptable, but does rely on the firer being a good shot. The results are also unpredictable - modern paintballs need a pretty hard strike to burst, and hard strikes hurt! So using a real gun that fires a projectile that is hard (paintballs are not, as some people think, soft at all!) - is plain stupid.

 

The dye in paintballs is water soluble, bio-degradable and even if it weren't - the retina is inside your eye, not on the external surface. From time to time seasoned paintballers get paint in the eye when it splashes in through the vents - it stings a bit, but comes out easily with water and does not stain! After all, it comes out of fabric so easily - designed that way!

[Rich newby]

Yep, a bit more info on paintball guns. The gun itself will only safely burst a paintball at 1m, and that will leave bruises. You truthfully need to be 5+m for it to hurt, but not bruise. You will struggle to pop a paintball between your fingers, when they get wet the will almost double in size, and become really squishy, but they are still too tough to break, they just squish and don't burst at all. I think the only way to pop a paintball, when not using a gun is by hitting it with an object. The paintball's are infact made of vegetable dyes, and I have never herd of a carrot staining someones retinas! <_<

 

HTH

Rich

[SeanT]

I was working on the premise that people run around in fields shooting them at each other all the time for fun - I understand that they do hurt, and that the actors would have to be accepting of this. Surely you could easily pop a bag full of fake red stuff with one though, creating the illusion of a projectile (the best kind of illusion being one with a basis in reality), a little bit of pain and a lot of (quite fake) mess <_<