Amdram

[Rich newby]

Hi again,

 

I was out watching West side story at the theatre royal tonight (well watching the lighting for west side story!) and I thought that the dancing was some of the worst co-ordinated I have ever seen. I then consulted the program and found out that it was an amatureproduction. So I thought, wait a Minuit! They are performing in the theatre royal for a week, they had about 8 inteligents (mac 500's I think, I could only see the light produced from the fixtures, not the fixture itself) About 20 stage crew, all with wireless cans, a good 30-35 wireless lav mics and a couple of jem glaciers. I don't know about you guys, but I always thought of amdram as a small 200 seater theatre, with the possibility to hire 2 wireless mics if they were really,really needed, Not an inteligent in sight and again, at a stretch some wired cans.

 

So what im asking is, whats the biggest amdram show you've seen (based on budget) and what you think is the standard?

 

Cheers

Rich

[paulears]

The truth nowadays, rich, is that the budgets for amateur shows have gone through the roof. The old 'joke' of am dram with the shaky scenery and random music and acting is largely gone. The budget is enormous, and the quality high. many audition from a much wider area, and if their own people aren't good enough, they don't get chosen. Use for example the Lowestoft Players, my home town amateur company - sets, music and everything are very high quality. Their scenery is always brand new - mainly because some of the senior members own their own professional scenery company. So when they did Jesus Christ Superstar, they designed a multi level, moving set with false floor and socket for the end cross scene - really spectacular stuff. They then hire the set out to defray the initial costs. They get the benefit of really expensive scenery, that nobody else has seen. Old scrappy cloths are long gone. Radio mics - moving lighting - it gets done properly. if they need click to make the band fuller - then they do it. Ticket prices are high to at least attempt to get the money back. No doubt now that you have to have very smart marketing people now, even with amateur shows.

 

I found it funny that you went to see a show not realising it was an amateur show - and had to read it in the programme - shows how far these shows have gone!

[timpman19]

I'm just about to being doing an amateur performance of Fame. We have 20 macs being hired in. And the car is being built specially. So yes the budget is quite big for am-dram in some places now.

 

I will be sure to post some pics after!

 

Josh

[Andrew C]

The truth nowadays, rich, is that the budgets for amateur shows have gone through the roof.

The group I'm involved with don't lash out on shows too much. We bought, converted & equipped the theatre, which requires a huge, professional commitment for no return, other than the enjoyment of "doing theatre". Damn good thing I didn't have to write that line on Sunday when trying to get an extra 8 mic lines to the pit!

The place cost £3k a month just to have it sitting there (no staff costs), plus whatever the 8 shows a year cost. Offset against that ticket sales, letting the building and some ****** grants. Please, no one mention the "Arts Council" in my hearing, or Hampshire CC for that matter, though they at least acknowledge that we exist.

[the kid]

I am perplexed by the term am-dram judging from this topic it has branched in to two groups, the rich ones, and the ones where they have no money but still do shows (or have money and do nothing with it)

 

I do shows with 3 am groups 2 have a significantly older population(late 40/50 and up) who appear to have no money but have a reasonable sum.

The other is a semi pro/am group who tour opera.

 

Then again near me there is also The Studio Theatre Club who perform about 3 shows a year there main income is the premiers of Terry Pratchett novels, I worked out must be a income of about £3k not including expenditure (set costume etc etc), but they spend wisely on hire of costumes, and thats it, but you can see where the money goes.

[paulears]

Much depends on the quality level they aspire to, but it is still possible to put on theatre for low outlay if you use texts that are out of copyright and use minimalist sets etc. the real snag is production values. My firm were invited to invest in a pro production at the Kings Head in Islington - an examination of the figures showed that it was guaranteed to lose money, and to my eyes would have looked like what most of us think of as amateur theatre at the budget end in terms of scenery, venue etc. If you want to put on a well known show, then you get judged by the last version people saw. Godspell is a good example of a show that doesn't need much in the way of set, if you do it as per the book - so it always (well, to me) looks 'cheap'.

 

There is in my view two terms, amateur and amateurish - one simply means it isn't their 'real' job - the other is that awful embarassing inept thing that most of us have seen from time to time. Luckily, that seems to be fading away at the same time as production values are going up.

[J Pearce]

Over the easter holiday I worked on a youth production of Les Mis. I guess youth generally comes under amdram.

However there was nothing amateur about this production.

 

We turned the local sixth form hall into a theatre.

Hired chippies in to extend the stage by 8 foot, and reboard over the extension and existing stage to give us one smooth surface.

We had a 29 channel radio mic setup, 48 ch Midas heritage and EAW speaker rig.

We had 72 channels of dimming, 18 scrollers, and 8 MAC700s.

 

The acting and band were superb. The production has had fantastic reviews and looked fantastic. ( I would post pics, but am unsure on the legality with our license and photography)

 

 

This is not uncommon for amdram locally, we have some groups who better many professional productions at our local excuse for a theatre.

 

In short there are generally two types of amdram; the luvvies, and those who put on a fantastic show.

[dbuckley]

Boy, where to start.

 

I currently do AmDram with two groups, both of whom perform primarily in the same 300 seat venue. But the two societies are very different in almost every way.

 

Firstly, theres the Musicals Society, who are the big group in town. Their primary thing is one big show a year, and this year it's West Side Story, opens tomorrow. This organisation is run effectively as a business, so it has to make money. The parts of the technical budget I am privvy to are (in my opinion) tiny, so there is a small light rig (from memory about a dozen each profiles and frez, and about 20 parcans), and a limited sound rig, but that with cajoling and budget busting has got 10 radio mics, with a few more capsules. So techncally this show is not in the same league as folks with a brace of movers and their own venue, but it has a fairly good orchestra, and a cast to die for, and the technical folks are making good use of their resources, and come tomorrow people will be leaving the theatre with their jaws dragging along the deck. Runs thur, fri, sat x 2 for four weeks. This society generally tries to buy stuff it thinks it will have a long term need for, so they own their own control, dimmers, a few lamps, and their PA, which has just been upgraded with a GL2200/32. These guys have a big impressive clubhouse with a big rehearsal room, big workshop, office, costume store and hire department, and a meeting space with kitchen.

 

The other society does more the standard AmDram fare of comedys, plays and the ever hateful murder mysteries. This society is far less populist than the big society, only runs the shows for one week, and just four (non-sold-out) performances. However, because this is a non-profit making society doing "art", it is elegible for grant funding, and in particular an easy-to-get grant that is designed to ensure that artistic endeavours do not make a loss. This is a cool idea, and the grant givers never actually manage to give away their pot for the year, so there is more funding than folks with needs, which is a very odd situation indeed. Anyway, this means you can design for what a show requires, rather than squeeze in what you can for the budget. Although not true of all shows, in general quality cast with quality direction and decent budgets mean that the performances are good regional theatre standard. Unfortunately, although the funding would be there to hire a fleet of movers, the artistic need is not. This society owns very little, as it doesnt generate the income required to purchase stuff. The clubhouse has a main room, a costume storage closet, and a ante area with a sink and kettle, and a garage to store sets and stuff in.

 

So, having wibbled a bit, I guess the underlying theme is that AmDram is different things to different folk, and there are very few norms. If there are any guarantees with AmDram, it is variable competence level (and especially amongst showcallers), and political infighting and bitching. Oh what sport...

[thcousins]

There is in my view two terms, amateur and amateurish - one simply means it isn't their 'real' job - the other is that awful embarassing inept thing that most of us have seen from time to time. Luckily, that seems to be fading away at the same time as production values are going up.

Quite!

 

An amateur is defined as...

 

1. Someone who engages in something as a hobbie or pastime.

2. Someone who lasks the skills of a profesional.

 

Either way, an amateur production could be a multi-million pound event, as long as the performers were either non-professionals or not being paid!

 

This could be 'good' or 'bad' but would still technically be Am-dram

 

In resonse to the inital post. The biggest I have seen was Paris of Troy, which apparently transfered to Broadway! (unlikely me thinks, but cannot say for sure)

[tbjhilton]

Norfolk & Norwich Operatic Society, who perform at Norwich Theatre Royal, are obviously not professional but in many ways as good as, and the price tag is very attractive at around half the ticket price of the usual touring shows at the Royal. They hire Pro sets, Pro director, Pro LD & crew, Pro MD & Semi-Pro musicians. There are occasionally bits that I have seen done better in village AmDram, but the overall result is near professional.

 

On the other hand, I saw the (professional) national tour of Anything Goes last night - it didnt seem that the dancers were aware of which way to look for the conductor! Dancing was all over the place. Singing was pretty flat in several places too. Glad I had a 2 for 1 voucher really - full price would have been a little disappointing.

 

I think the boundary between Very Good AmDram and Poor Professional is becoming a bit blurred!

[Bobbsy]

Okay...here's a connundrum for you....

 

This week I'm working on a show. It's and original musical (basically a tribute to the old "rat pack) with 9 original numbers and a "concert" section with a sequence of the songs Frank, Dean and Sammy used to sing.

 

I'm being paid (not my full rate, but not badly) as is the LX guy and most of the orchestra. I'm using a DM2000, 14 channels of radio mic plus multiple wired mics (for the concert section since it supposedly takes place before the era of handheld radios). I also have a 16 piece "big band" all miked and mixed. The LX folks have a ton of rented intelligent lights plus a lovely LED star curtain and lots of flashy stuff built into the set (New York Skyline).

 

The only unpaid "amateurs" on this show are the cast.

 

So...does this count as Amdram or professional?

 

Bob

[MarcT]

AmDram can be anything from a small village hall panto with (say) a £30 LX budget - up to big shows with production budgets of £30-37k (the most I've seen) for a one week run. I personally have worked on shows at both ends of the scale, and enjoy the challenges both offer.

 

The biggest technical show I've been involved with was a production of "Saucy Jack & the Space Vixens" back in 2003, as a production electrician. There are some photos here. Have a look & see what you think! I don't actually know what it cost though...

 

A few folk on here will know the venue and at least one other BR member was involved...

 

Marc

BTW: That's me sitting on the truss in the first building photo.

[Just Some Bloke]

The only unpaid "amateurs" on this show are the cast.

So...does this count as Amdram or professional?

It counts as amateur.

 

Don't forget that if the bloke or blokess in the street goes to see a show it's the show itself they want to see. i.e. they want to come away humming the songs not the set.

 

We can help it look and sound as good as it's ever going to be, but it's the quality of the performances that really matters.

 

I light pro shows and am shows and I do the same job for both. I've done some pro shows that have had a smaller budget than some am shows and I've done my best for both. I'm sure noise buys, SMs and orchestras are the same.

 

But... (and here's the rub) tbj is wrong:

 

I think the boundary between Very Good AmDram and Poor Professional is becoming a bit blurred!

 

The quality of any performance can be measured by the quality of the worst aspect of the production. Pro shows are performed and produced entirely by people who only got the job because someone made the decision they could do it well. Amateur shows are performed by mebers of the society (maybe with one or two guest principals). It really isn't feasible to expect them all to be at the same standard as the pros, because if they were then most of them would be pros.

 

I've worked am shows with some fabulous people in the cast, but you can't expect the third spear carrier from the left to be as good as a pro, because he works behind a desk all week and studied accountancy at college not acting. It's not his fault and amateur theatre is there for people like him. If it was there for pros it would be called Professional Theatre (and, indeed, it is ;) ).

 

I really love lighting amateur shows because everyone is enjoying themselves. Some of them have huge budgets and make £6K in profit (as one show I worked recently did) and others lose money every time they do a performance and then do fundraising for the rest of the year so they can do another. Whichever way they work they don't get paid for the performing and that makes them amateurs (literally "lovers"). It is different from professional and it's meant to be!

 

And it doesn't matter! :blink:

[bruce]

While the formal definition of "amateur" vs "professional" relates purely to remuneration for the performers, it could be argued that at a practical level, the important difference relates to ability and attitide rather than whether you're getting paid. In other words, there is a difference between "professional" and "professionalism".

 

Discuss.

[djw1981]

An amateur can be as good as a professional. Just because I choose not to do it for a career does not mean that I a) not trained and b) not of a high standard.