How do you deal with stolen kit?

[Shaggy]

We've had a couple of problems with a client recently involving stolen kit. Every single gig that I can remember doing we have had stylii from decks stolen (theres often 3 dj setups in various parts of the venue). In the past we have invoiced the client and they have paid up, however after a DJ mixer went walkies last year (was in a bar with no supervision, although there were door staff and client representatives around) they refused to pay. They have recently asked us for another quote and have said that us not providing stylii would be unacceptable, but we do not feel they are safe. What are other peoples policies on stuff like this?

[Simon Lewis]

Do you provide the hirer with a contract that must be signed before kit arrives on site, and an equipment manifest listing exactly what will be bought into the venue?

 

If not, and you are relying on verbal agreements etc., it can be hard to enforce replacement of stolen equipment.

 

The contract should state hire duration, who is responsible for what and at what time, who should provide insurance, how quickly replacement equipment must be paid for etc. Many people adapt a contract that already exists. It may not be good practice, but it can serve as a good starting point.

 

Simon

[mac.calder]

Yep - Hire contract is the way to go.

 

It is fairly standard that the hirer is responsible for physical security and returning the equiptment in near same condition (normal wear over the course of the hire expected).

 

As a general rule, I would suggest having a solicitor assist with the drawing up of the contract if you can afford it. If you can't, provided you are fairly clear in your intention on paper and the contract does not violate any laws, your contract should be passable. That said - If I was hiring out DJ equiptment, I would provide everything in lockable flightcases and state quite clearly that when the equiptment is not in use it should be locked up.

 

I know you are not really worying about damage in this instance, but as a general rule, when hiring I make notes on condition, especially things like desks. I am usually on the other side, being the hirer, however the number of times I beg borrow and loan items from places without loan documentation has lead to me having 'fill in the gaps' style forms ready for those situations - that way they cannot blame me for problems that were pre-existing.

[Bobbsy]

Simon is spot on, but I'd add a couple of things.

 

First, the policy on lost, stolen and damaged items would normally be handled in a standard "terms and conditions" section to the rental agreement, rather than be something you have to re-do every time.

 

Second, it's pretty normal for renters to have to sign for all gear when they get delivery from you, accepting responsibility for it and agreeing to the T&Cs relating to the hire.

 

Bob

[Shaggy]

We already have a Terms and Conditions, which specifies that the client is responsible for what they hired, with a bit of paperwork to sign when they confirm the hire, and on the day of the hire/event. When our DJ mixer got stolen the client decided that their interpretation of the contract was different to ours and refused to pay the invoice for it. We are both part of a student organisation, and they managed to make us look like the bad guys (it did not help that the kit was not insured), and we had no further avenues to go down, as they suggested a meeting to talk things over with and independant mediator then refused to turn up. Paying for the hired in dj mixer wiped out half the money we made from this party and has pissed us off a large amount, however we can't just tell the client to bugger off as they are one of our bigger spending clients.

 

Our enforcement of our contract is generally quite lenient with regard to cancelled events etc, but I realise we should update the contract for when it needs to be enforced so that it is crystal clear. What is standard practice for who is responsible for what as I am a little unclear, especially as to the difference between responsiblity for manned, delivered and dry hired kit.

[landy]

Have it insured and pass the bill on via the hire charge, or if the client wants to insure it, demand to see written proof. Then you are only loosing the excess if there is one. but previous comments of a new contract are just as valid using a solicitor to make it water tight to avoid the two interpretations.

I am a little unclear, especially as to the difference between responsiblity for manned, delivered and dry hired kit.

 

I would asume with dry hire the client is responcible when they take delivery or come to collect. with wet hire you would be responsible to a point but the venue needs to give a degree of security within reson.

[Bobbsy]

In my initial reply I had assumed dry hire. If you're providing a service that happens to include gear then the situation is much less clear. Certainly your personnel on the job must take some responsibility if they were supposed to be present and watching the gear.

 

Basically, you'll have to decide who is responsible for security...and if you're not happy with the arrangements made by your client, take in your own and factor the cost into your price.

 

Bob

[Paul J Need]

10outof10 always ask for a credit/debit card number to secure the equipment against loss or damage for non-account customers..

 

If equipment is not returned, the customer has 14 days to try and find and return the equipment or the card is charged for the replacement value. This way the customer is more inclined to look after the equipment and chase you for their money rather then you having to chase them to get paid for losses.

[dbuckley]

You're a bit stuck here.

 

The right answer is that your T&Cs make it clear that the hirer is responsible for kit and when he disagrees you don't go to mediation, you go straight to the small claims court and recover the lost dosh with a bit more for lost hire opportunities 'cos he p*ssed you about.

 

But firstly your T&Cs dont appear to be sufficiently clear in this respect, and secondly, you dont want to lose the client, so yanking him to court may not be the best thing to do.

 

Based on previous experience, it seems they would have paid, but found some wiggle room in the contract, so were able to quite reasonably not pay.

 

My advice is to write this one off, and spend some money getting your T&Cs up to scratch. Additionally, you may need to more clearly define what exactly the hire relationship is, vis-a-vis dry versus wet versus something inbetween.

 

If this were a problem for me then I'd also be looking at adding some electronic security, but then I'm nasty like that. Nothing like a banshee wail and automated security announcement at 115dBA and all the movers whip round to illuminate the "DJ" unplugging the mixer :)

 

Afterthought: Could you provide the stylii on a "sale or return" basis as consumables, as it would be very fair to say that they are delicate things subject to damage.

[Jivemaster]

Your T&Cs need to be precise and in total conformance with CURRENT law really only a solicitor can do this for you. (If they contain Ultra Vires terms they will get thrown out by courts)

You then need to charge an appropriate ammount to account for this clients poor record and get a worthwhile detailed list of hired kit, sold kit and Sale or Return kit. If the client is so important to you that you wish to take the losses ...... otherwise the kit is chargeable if not returned.

 

Many hire contracts actually specify that the hire rate is payable til the item is returned OR paid in full.

[Ellis]

If anyone needs to resort to the courts, the courts now have an online facility for filing claims www.moneyclaim.gov.uk with a £10 discount off the normal fees.

 

Another trick is to obtain the court forms, fill them in and send a photo-copy to the prospective defendant (with a compliments slip to show it has come from you). You would be amazed how much credibility an un-filed court form is given! NB you are in effect informing them of your intention to file the form - and out of good-will giving them a last oportunity to pay up without patying for a solicitors letter.

[MarkPAman]

Afterthought: Could you provide the stylii on a "sale or return" basis as consumables, as it would be very fair to say that they are delicate things subject to damage.

 

I used to do that for a big four room all night event, used to "sell" loads as nobody ever seemed to return them. Often covered fuel & my crews food. :P One night I think I got rid of about 15 pairs! I had headphones for sale too.