the kid Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 At college we are doing Threepenny Opera in July. In our set It has been asked that we have 6 table lights. In its self not to hard (except may be getting them all the same) the real issue comes when each light has to be controlled from our desk (illusion120). Does any one have any starter ideas on how to do this. The obvious thing is to run cables but there is a chance of the tables being moved mid show, H&S etc etc. We have a budget of not much (in general about £1500) so things like batteries and remote DMX is not really a option. Cheers TK :D - topic title edited so that it actually gives a clue as to the content of the topic. :P Questions are far more likely to get useful responses if the topic title is suitably descriptive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Two ways you could go - batteries aren't a particularly expensive option, if you get some lead-acid batteries and chargers and retro-fit your table lamps with suitable low-voltage bulbs. Alternatively, if your actors are reasonably well-trained and can be trusted to do such things, you could always have a short trailing lead from each table which gets plugged into a suitably-concealed low-profile connector (e.g. IEC) at each of the tables' positions. Otherwise, it sounds like a simple case of letting the creative team know what the limitations are - i.e. "You want table lamps? No problem, you can have them, but due to limited budget they'll have to be mains-powered which will mean you can't move any of the tables during the show. Let me know whether you still want them." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 one very effective system I saw a few years ago was really simple. Low voltage lamps in the fittings and silver foil pads on the stage, each table leg has a couple of diodes attached to a metal dome on the bottom of each leg. The foil pads are wired alternately + - + - and then the tables can just be dropped wherever you want by the crew. The diodes prevent shorts, and as long as at least one leg of the four is on a different polarised pad on the floor the lamps light! Et Voila! instant light, no cables, no batts hidden away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goochr96 Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Hmm, you could try and hire (unless you have have) a betapack, or some other simiilar 6Ch dimmer pack, mount that under the table, then all you have to worry about is a power supply to the dimmer, and a DMX line to it too. And as ( I asume) these will be bog standard house hold lamps, then they will be no more than 100w each. And if they were 100W that would only make a total load of 2.608695652 Amps !!! So you will be able to run the dimmer quite comftably off a 13A plug top. Hope this helps, and ime not telling you how to suck eggs!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Pearce Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Or run them at 12V off a small transformer and use a load lamp to protect the dimmer. We did this at college for our most recent show.One advantage is the lines are only at 12V meaning if anything gets knocked or damaged its perfectly safe. It would also make it easier for stage crew to plug them in if the tables were not static. You could use a jack plug or similar which is very low profile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Hmm, you could try and hire (unless you have have) a betapack, or some other simiilar 6Ch dimmer pack, mount that under the table, then all you have to worry about is a power supply to the dimmer, and a DMX line to it too.Or run them at 12V off a small transformer and use a load lamp to protect the dimmer.Boys, you really know how to muddy the waters and make things complicated, don't ya?! :D Read again what the OP said - the main issue that he has to contend with is that each of the tables with a lamp on might have to be moved during the show. Jon, if you're going to run a 12v cable to each one you might as well run a dimmer feed - at least then you won't have to contend with the increase in voltage drop that you'd get with a long run of 12v. And Chris - using your solution, you'd have to get mains and DMX to the table with the dimmer pack underneath it, and a further feed from that table to each of the other five!!!! That's one table with 7 cables connected to it (not to mention the necessity of concealing a dimmer rack underneath a table!). Crikey! Not exactly what I'd call a compact and elegant solution! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the kid Posted February 27, 2006 Author Share Posted February 27, 2006 Gareth - It could well end up being a case of IEC attachment Paul I love the idea the unfortunate thing is that they need to be individualy lit. Goochr - I should of said 1st the tables are, in the design, small round ones 18-14 inches across at the top ( I will try and get a picture) Jon - I like the idea of a jack and 12v but although low profile could it not be removed a little to easily. Possible some experimentation afoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Pearce Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 If a jack is too weak a connection then use an obscure XLR, I'd avoid three pin for 12V, saw a load of S40s come to an untimely end thanks to birdies on XLR3. Use 4pin and connect up the power as if for a scroller, leaving the other two blank, avoids accidents that way. Gareth - mains connectors are mainly big and bulky as is mains cable. Low voltage can use figure8 cable, and although voltage drop is an issue we had a 15m run of 12V lines for our college show and it didnt cause a problem. No doubt we had lost a bit of voltage, but the lamp still lit enough to be seen.Also as I mentioned earlier low voltage connectors can use a much wider range of connectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 I'd suggest one of the following: 12v dimmable SELV transformers to foil pads on the floor, with each table being put on a specific pair of pads in each of its required positions. The volt drop across the pad/table interface will be the most significant issue.This gives certain limitations on positioning as you can ony re-use pairs of pads rather than individual pads, but not huge. This takes extremely careful setup as it must be impossible to place a table across unpaired pads as this could be dangerous, and is not very resilient - all it takes is one actor to scrape a pad, or the table to be placed slightly off position for the system to fail. Otherwise:Conceal a SLA/VSLA battery in the table or tablelamp itself, and use that to drive the lamp. To control these either use 12v radio-controlled dimmers, or provide concealed toggle switches around the edge of the table for the actors to switch themselves as required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Gareth - mains connectors are mainly big and bulky as is mains cable.0.5mm^2 two-core (or three-core if the lamps aren't class 2) isn't big cable. And connectors such as IECs or three-in-lines aren't big or bulky, really. Horses for courses, isn't it? If you're talking about a fairly long run of 12v, you're going to need chunky cable to avoid noticable voltage drop, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Thought... Maplin do IR receiver modules, details here, for £10 each. A dual transmitter is also £10. So for £90 you get 6 x RX and 3 x TX. The RX will switch 1A DC. I've never use these but I saw them in the store the other day. To control it from the 120 use a Milford Instruments 8 channel DMX to Relay board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SceneMaster Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 At college we are doing Threepenny Opera in July. Oh dear :P... Just come off a run of that show a little more than two weeks ago at college. Wasn't bad, however the first act (if you only have one interval) can be a killer 1.5 hours long with another 45min second act!!! Lighting looked good though :D and we had a massive scaff set. Might be able to find some pics somewhere. As for a wireless solution find some really cheap R/C kit and use each direction of the transmitter to control a servo control board(?) and power a small lamp of this or something to this effect. Although you would only get 4channels and probably wouldn't be able to use 12v lamps. I can't remember exactly how this was done but one of the guys at the theatre made a tinkerbell like this for PeterPan a few years back. this using a R/C transmitter and 4 receivers and little 9v lamps. As you can see I can’t remember the specifics;). I am sure this idea could be upsized for under a £100 for the set of 6 and 12v in some way. You would also need to swap the R/C controls for latching switches or similar. Well just an idea, Edit: Or just go with Brian's solution as it is much better ;). I really should type my posts faster and not do other things at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 I am sure this idea could be upsized for under a £100 for the set of 6 and 12v in some way.No chance - good quality (changable crystal) amateur radio control gear costs over £100 alone, plus £40 for each additional receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the kid Posted February 27, 2006 Author Share Posted February 27, 2006 Our run If we did use a XLR type cable would most likley be 5M so not that much. Overall at the moment Im liking the idea of lead-acid batteries and chargers and putting on a simple switch (toggle/BIG push). And looking at the ground plan our floor sockets could all be taken up by floor lights.:s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SceneMaster Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 I am sure this idea could be upsized for under a £100 for the set of 6 and 12v in some way.No chance - good quality (changable crystal) amateur radio control gear costs over £100 alone, plus £40 for each additional receiver. Not so... Maplin Attack 2ER . This is a good cheap 2way/channel system which you could use to control 4 lights with some modifications... well I think, I seem to remember that for Peter Pan it was only a two way system and you just reversed the direction of the joy stick when other unit on the same channel. But anyway Brian’s idea is better. Edit: Crystal changeable too :D and quite high quality and reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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