Large PA

[tev_2]

What is available in the way of large scale PA suitable for outdoor events of about 5000 – 10,000 people that can be bought for under £15,000? (for speakers and amps new or second hand)

 

Personally im familiar with Nexo (particularly Alpha), some of the LA Acoustics stuff, EV MT (though I know its elderly now) and odds and ends of SSE kit though the years ( e.g. Betermax, and the old black box speakers – proper oldskool!).

 

So far Nexo Alpha looks like the best bet as its easily available 2nd hand, compact, and good value for money (should be easily able to get enough for the budget 2nd hand). Can anyone suggest other companies of models to have a look at?

 

Thanks

Tev

[charlyfarly]

That money for that amount of people? Try adding another nought. ie. £150.000 and that is being conservative. :D

Sorry to be negative but there is a lot more to it than just speakers and amps, what about cabling, distro, drive control etc.?

The brands you are asking for are a trifle expensive (even second hand) unless anyone else knows different?

;)

[Rich newby]

I totally agree, you would be pushing it to get Nexo speakers and decent amps second hand in decent condition! I'm afraid mate your on behringer budget, and maby not even that! There may be a really small ray of hope left, however we need to know a bit more info:

 

 

What will you be doing with the system (eg gigs or parties)

How much will it get used?

What equipment have you already got?

What do you need to buy for £15,000? (eg, only speakers and amps or cables, distribution on-top)

 

If you do need to buy a full system with £15,000 I would say you don't have much chance! I would be spending £5,000 on cables alone if it was for a gig! Sorry to sound negative, we may be able to work something out but I wouldn't build your hopes up,im not sure what wattage your thinking of, but I believe a good way of working it out is 10w per person, thats a 100,000w system,you could get away with 50kw,but im still not sure on what your gonna get for £15,000!

 

Sorry!

Rich

 

Just been working it out, if were going on a Powered hk projector(because I had that web page open), it would mean that you would need 10 hk systems, and there £8000 each which totals £80,000 and thats not a perticually expensive system for the power it would be giving out, (it would sound crap with that many aswell) so if you say that a second hand system of the size of 1 hk projector except not powered (seperate amps and speakers)and without cables, second hand would be around £4,000 each, and that would be a fairly cheap system, that will still cost you £40,000! I think the you might need to get a bigger budget first. A good saying that really applys in sound is that you get what you pay for, try applying that here!

[charlyfarly]

Ummm...there is also the matter of secure storage (you'll need something a bit more than a garage!) for that amount of gear. Insurance and transport as well! It all mounts up I'm afraid. ;)

What about hiring a system?

[ChrisD]

I know of an old HK system, fully cased with amps and x-overs and cables. It runs off a SPNE 32A supply and it's being sold for £4k or so. As a ball-park figure for people at a rock concert, it would easily entertain 1000-2500 people I would guess. Say there was an equivalent 3 times bigger which cost 12k, it would be suitable for between 3000-7500 people, so getting a system that big might be feasably possible for your budget. However, you'll be looking at kit which requires forklift trucks and 7.5T trucks to move from gig to gig. Not to mention all the associated rigging, cabling, mixers, etc.

 

my £0.02

[StevieR]

Another point is that the types of speaker systems used for large gigs are different from those used for small to medium scale events. You need cabinets that have a longer throw pattern (read: tighter dispersion) and are designed to array in multiple numbers. These days, that mostly means line-array systems. Simply adding together systems that use short to medium throw boxes will only read to trouble.

 

If you are only going to be doing a handlful of events at this scale each year then hiring a system is definately going to be a better option.

[DanSpeed]

The l-acoustics are good, as is d+b audiotechnik C4 or C7, not sure if you could get enough d+b for the money tho. If you can get enough Alpha for your money I'd go with that, it'll do a fine job. If only they had better wheelboards!

[charlyfarly]

Please remember there is a huge difference between 5000 and 10,000 people......What ever way you look at it.

Using point source is going to require some neat delay line speakers and using line-array requires a proper plot to get it all to knit together.

Way beyond the OP's budget sadly.

[phil dekked]

Have to agree that £15,000 is not a big enough budget to cover that amount of people. Are you going to always ground stack? `cos that will cut your costs dramatically! I`d be tempted to keep an eye on deals for second-hand Turbo systems , maybe without the amps..? Flood or Flash tends to go for around £1000 a box so you would need a lot more cash to cover the subs let alone the cabling , amps etc etc! but sometimes a bargain does pop up when someone wants to move a whole set-up quickly ( usually ex-install gear)

Second hand Eaw KF packages are quite common now along with older Meyer Msl . Maybe try some hard haggling on a package and add some extras to it..?

 

.p.

[tev_2]

Im not sure about your fingers from several gigs ive done, for instance I was on a 3000-4000 person outdoor even with 8k of MT2 which still had plenty of head room. It doesn’t need to be 120 db at the back of the crowd, that’s illegal if nothing else! I know for a fact that alpha is a lot more efficient and has a lot more guts per kW. Ive been told (buy someone who works for SSE – the largest sound company in Europe) that 12k of alpha would be excessive, and alpha works out at well under £1000 a kW 2nd hand from them.

 

The £15,000 is just for speakers and amps, cabling comes in a different budget. To be honest it’s a bit of a ballpark finger anyway (number of people as well, generally its more likely to be the lower end of 5000 people or less), this is for a possible project for next year.

 

Tev

 

 

Oh, ps, Storage, transporting and rigging are not an issue though size could be

 

Tev

 

 

p.p.s pose a new question then, what can I get for £15,000? and what number of people do you think that will cover?

 

Tev

[Rich newby]

p.p.s pose a new question then, what can I get for £15,000? and what number of people do you think that will cover?

 

Tev

 

If you are looking at new gear, you could get between 2000 (Fairly good sounding, D+B Gear And NEXO) to about 4000 (not really good enough for constant use)

 

How long will your project last for, and will you be likely to be doing it again? If not then you could save a tonne of cash and just hire some high quality line array system, like suggested in an earlier post.

[tev_2]

How long will your project last for, and will you be likely to be doing it again? If not then you could save a tonne of cash and just hire some high quality line array system, like suggested in an earlier post.

Probably about 5 years, and would be in constant use over that period. I would need to own it due to the sort of project it is.

 

I'm definitely looking at 2nd hand, I know ex sse stuff is good for many years as where I work we have had (and regularly heavily used) 16k of MT2 for over 5 years and 6k of black box for at least 15, probably more like 20 years and its still going strong.

 

thanks

 

Tev

 

Edit:- Excess quotage excised and spell check applied. :P

[i_hate_fisicks]

Well occasionally, you can find 8 stacks of D&B C4 (with amps) for around £20k second hand. To cover 5000 people, you're going to want at least twice this.

 

Nexo wise, there are 8 stacks of Alpha on Ebay for £20k at the moment, and that comes with subs, so is probably a better deal, but you'd still need twice as much, and SSE sell it for waaaay more than that.

 

So you need to either find some more money, or get renting. I find it hard to beleive that if you've got gigs of that size a) all you're missing is the FOH PA, and b) that you'd only have £15000 set aside for this, and c) that you don't know how much PA costs.

 

If I were you, I'd rent a system to cover the gigs.

[tev_2]

sorry, I am mistaken, sse second hand alpha works out at about £1000 per KW, eithor they have put there prices up or I was thinking of somthine else.

 

http://www.sse-hire.com/category.asp?id=1&ctg=5&section=6

 

Tev

[Bobbsy]

I agree with posts that have been made about the budget being unrealistic...but I also think you're coming at this from very much the wrong direction.

 

When you start talking about 5000-10,000 people, you can't just ask "what good sounding speakers can I get cheap". You have to design as system based on the layout of the venue then buy the appropriate gear to give coverage of the area. You'll certainly be needing a number of long-throw cabs, some shorter throw stuff for front fills, and, quite possibly, some extra stacks for coverage of people at the back or where ever.

 

I also have to say that the difference between 5 and 10 thousand is huge in system terms, so the general spec you give at the beginning is going to cause you problems for a start. System costs are a bit like other audio equations...they go up exponentially as you crowd size goes up linearly! :P

 

Finally, I notice you refer to an outdoor venue. This adds another level of complication in your system design...and probably ups the level of power you need to handle the job.

 

Bob