Which Cat5 cable?

[parky58]

I am looking to purchase an Allen and Heath GLD 80 or possibly an ILive system. Looking at the price of the A&H dSnakes, I am looking to make up my own using a heavy duty cable(s) using Neutrik ethercon connectors (cable is £191 for 100m at CPC). I will probably want a 50m and a 10m to start with. Can anyone advise me;

• The best place to buy cable (Klotz, duracat, beleden etc)
• Cat 5e, 6 or 7?
• Are there any difficulties in fitting the plugs?
• Is the screen normally connected to the plug shell at one end or both ends, and if so which end? (thinking back to earth loops caused by connecting both ends on audio equip)
• Would unscreened, standard cat5 do as a backup or is the screen essential?

Thanks for your wisdom in advance.

[pete10uk]

Not familiar with running digital audio down cat 5 but In another part of life I run cat 5 in fields throughout the summer months.

I use vann damm tour cat purchased from vdc trading. Not the cheapest cable by a long shot but I have really given it some wellie and coupled with Neutrik ethercon connectors its never given ma a bit of trouble apart from when the connector has filled up with mud.

I've had it running in lakes and rivers, its been laid across major roads and under god knows how many pairs of feet and its still going strong. Not sure on the exact spec of cable you require but you get what you pay for when it comes to pro cable longevity.

[Simon Lewis]

Pete,

 

Were you running digital audio/ethernet down that CAT5? I've heard that when pushed, the standard CAT5 (solid core) performs electrically better than the tough stranded stuff? I'm sure that the TourCat is physically much tougher!

 

 

Simon

[smalljoshua]

I've had Duracat, Tourcat on gigs over the summer and a bit of experience with the Belcom stuff too.

 

Kelsey Duracat is electrically fine, but PVC outer jacketed and physically unwieldy (IMO).

 

Tourcat is much nicer physically and pretty much identical internally.

 

The Belcom stuff seems massively better physically than the other two, a bit heavier than the others too.

 

I can't comment on their suitability on the dSnake stuff, but 80m lengths of all 3 are plenty suitable for AES50 on the Midas Digitals.

 

As a curve ball, the Cordial Stuff from Thomann is physically very similar to the Tourcat, perhaps a bit thinner in the outer jacket.

 

Josh

[pete10uk]

Pete,

 

Were you running digital audio/ethernet down that CAT5? I've heard that when pushed, the standard CAT5 (solid core) performs electrically better than the tough stranded stuff? I'm sure that the TourCat is physically much tougher!

 

 

Simon

 

No it's not running audio, its running standard network and a voltage pulse down a spare pair. I can get 110m down the solid unscreened tourcat and 90m down the stranded screened stuff (not tried the other verities), I know it's not the greatest distances but not sure what affect the voltage pulse has on the signal.

[chelgrian]

I am looking to purchase an Allen and Heath GLD 80 or possibly an ILive system. Looking at the price of the A&H dSnakes, I am looking to make up my own using a heavy duty cable(s) using Neutrik ethercon connectors (cable is £191 for 100m at CPC). I will probably want a 50m and a 10m to start with. Can anyone advise me;

 

The A&H ACE for iLive and the dSnake protocol for GLD 80 runs over Fast Rather than Gigabit Ethernet. With an appropriate cable it will go to 120m. 120m is actually over the maximum specified length for Fast Ethernet which is 100m. The specifications call for up to 80m of installed solid core cable and 2 x up to 10m of stranded patch cable at each end.

 

As far as I am aware the cables sold by A&H are 110m drums of Klotz RamCAT5 S/UTP, that is to say the entire cable is shielded but the individual twisted pairs aren't. It may be substantially cheaper to buy same cable from a bulk supplier than from A&H.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:S-UTP-cable.svg

 

Those particular cables have substantially lower maximum distances for gigabit based connections such as the Dante network used by the Yamaha CL desks. They are only tested up to 75m for those and there have been reports on the blueroom of it being unreliable even at that distance.

 

Klotz also sell a solid core SF/UTP cable, that is to say foil screening and braid. This will be harder to handle and more expensive but is tested up to 100m by Yamaha for Dante.

 

So in summary what cable to buy depends firstly on if you are only going to use it with A&H gear or if it's going to get used for other desks as well and secondly on how important ease of handling is for you.

[parky58]

Thanks chaps, so far I've been able to take on board your recommendations regarding cable type, but can anyone advise me on;

 

 

• The best place to buy cable (Klotz, duracat, beleden etc)
• Cat 5e, 6 or 7?
• Are there any difficulties in fitting the plugs?
• Is the screen normally connected to the plug shell at one end or both ends, and if so which end? (thinking back to earth loops caused by connecting both ends on audio equip)
• Would unscreened, standard cat5 do as a backup or is the screen essential?

[Yorkie]

One of my customers is trying to use 80m of new Van Damme Tourgrade Cat5E for Dante at 1Gb/s and it's only giving him 100Mb/s. Apart from testing the cable in the morning, is there anything else I can do, anybody else had problems? It's running from a Dante card in an A&H GLD80 to an iMac.

[timsabre]

One of my customers is trying to use 80m of new Van Damme Tourgrade Cat5E for Dante at 1Gb/s and it's only giving him 100Mb/s. Apart from testing the cable in the morning, is there anything else I can do, anybody else had problems? It's running from a Dante card in an A&H GLD80 to an iMac.

 

gigabit requires all 4 pairs to be connected - if there is a cable fault on the outer pairs then it will work for 100MB but not for 1GB

[Doug Siddons]

Bought mine from CLD distribution also don't forget to read this http://www.allen-heath.com/UK/Products/Pages/SubLinkDetails.aspx?CatId=iLiveSeries&SID=25

[BlueShift]

Thanks chaps, so far I've been able to take on board your recommendations regarding cable type, but can anyone advise me on;

 

 

• The best place to buy cable (Klotz, duracat, beleden etc)
• Cat 5e, 6 or 7?
• Are there any difficulties in fitting the plugs?
• Is the screen normally connected to the plug shell at one end or both ends, and if so which end? (thinking back to earth loops caused by connecting both ends on audio equip)
• Would unscreened, standard cat5 do as a backup or is the screen essential?

 

Right, a few things here:

 

- Kelsey, Klotz and VDC all have good options

 

1) Cat5, Cat5e, Cat6, Cat7 are all different cable types. Cat5 is uncommon these days, you typically get Cat5e. Its an improved standard on Cat5 that specifically addressed some issues of crosstalk. Its rated for use for gigabit ethernet. It is generally (but not always) used unscreened (UTP) Cat 6 is similar to cat5e, but is again improved to make it suitable for 10Gb ethernet as well as 100Mb and 1Gb. Again, normally used unscreened. Cat7 is an entirely different class of cable designed for the newer generation of 10Gb and faster ethernet systems. It improves on a lot of things but most notably includes screening of each pair, and the whole cable.

 

Cat5e is fine for all of the digital audio applications I can think of, but Its not a bad idea to buy Cat6 if you want some forward compatibility.

 

2) Fitting the plugs is easy with a good tool and a bit of practice. Don't be cheap when buying cat5 crimping tools.

 

3) Ethernet does not require a screen, and in most cases you won't need screened cables. I think there are a couple of desk manufacturers whose consoles require screened cables, though, so its not uncommon. Screened cat5 (STP) needs special RJ45 connectors which have a metal shell to connect to the cable's drain wire. The ethercon will contact with this, but that is not really important, the screen should be maintained through any patch panel connectors to the equipment in question. As a general grounding rule of thumb, tying the signal screen to the chassis (and therefore the panel, to the rack, to other gear, to the PDU, etc....) should be the exception, not the rule.

 

4) Check your manufacturers specs. Most Cat5 based digital audio systems are based on ethernet (even if its just at an electrical level, like AES50, or if its a full IP system like Dante), which doesn't inherently require screened cable. Most ethernet cable is unscreened

[parky58]

In the end I bought a drum of Vanne Damme Tourcat (january) and made up a 75m, 20m and 5m cables using Neutrik ethercon plugs. The 75m is on a drum with a chassis mounted socket. All works well.

 

I might get some armoured version at some point for outside events.

 

Thanks again everyone for your input.

[TimmyP1955]

Ask the manufacturer. Some recommend 5E over 6.

[mjriley]

Hijacking the thread a bit here.

 

Looking for a 50m tour grade ethernet cable on a reel for use with Sennheiser WSM.

Not got a massive budget, around £100 but can stretch a little.

Initially went to Thomann and they used to make a cheap 50m cable on a reel but now they only seem to produce a 15m and a 75m version.

So going with the 75m version at £70 however it looks like it is just standard, non-rugged cat5e, probably stranded:

http://www.thomann.de/gb/the_sssnake_cat_75.htm

 

Or my currently preferred option is a 50m Van Damme tour grade cat5e cable on a reel at £125:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=111053712711

 

Interested in your opinions and if there's any other options I should be considering.

[paulears]

I've got one of the Thoman 75m ones, and the cable is black, not blue as it says pretty tough - and so far has survived everything I've done to it. can't say what the internal cable construction is, but it works fine on my X32 and I'm very happy with what it is c what I paid.