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Again the Behringer LC2412

#1 User is offline   Jase 

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 10:27 AM

Hello chaps,
Quite new to lighting so please bear with me.
After purchasing a Behringer LC2412, (which in theory is supposed to be a massive upgrade from our little old lighting controller) me and a freind of mine that has far superior knowledge of band lighting to me went last night, got all our lights out in a freezing cold garage and sat and scratched our heads for 4 and a 1/2 hours trying to figure the new lighting control desk.
we walked away at 10.45pm blue in the face hoping never to come across DMX (of a lc2412)ever ever again.

until this morning. we sat discussing via text messages what we could have done wrong.... we still don't know.

I have a few questions if I may.

1, Will this desk allow me to control 4 moving head lights (2 have 9 channels and 2 have 5 channels of DMX), 2 dimmer packs each with 4 par 56 cans on (4 channels which we have programmed the same so work the same), and 2 stand alone par 64 DMX cans with led (5 channels each) all indiviually?

2, If the answer to the above is YES then how do I assign 1 channel per fixture.

hope im making some if at all any sense. as I say im new to lighting and already hate DMX with a passion! ;) :) ;)

when the answers come through I might hand over to my mate but until then....

Thanks in advance.

#2 User is offline   JimWebber 

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 10:49 AM

No, well, Yes, well No, well..... Uhhhmmmm...

As you may have gathered the LC24/12 is not the ideal desk full stop, even less ideal for moving lights.

As it's name suggests, it has a grand total of 24 dimmable channels. Your moving lights alone, require 2 x 9 + 2 x 5 = 28 channels.

If you were to address the 9 channel lights to (say) channel 1, the two five channel to channel 10, the PAR56 to channel 15, and the PAR 64s to channel 19. You could just get away with it. The two downsides to this are:

1. Obviously, your movers would do exactly the same thing together (You may want to reverse the Pan and/or tilt on one of them!), and your Parcans would show the same colours!

2. It will mean putting the desk into "Wide" mode" - Okay when running programmes, cue stacks etc. But an absolute pain to operate manually and program.

Even if you went this way, programming would be a pain in the ar*e, to avoid ugly moves during blackouts etc. (Possibly less of a problem with a band setup then a theatre environment but hey!)

What controller have you replaced? - I get the impression that you are not totally new to DMX, so you should realise that it isn't a problem with DMX per se, rather that the controller you have is not the best option in your case.

I'm not really in a position to recommend a controller, there are plenty of people on here who will confuse the hell out of you with their recommendations!

However, I must say this in defence of the LC 24/12.

Despite it's (numerous) faults - must try to get hold of the new EPROM - For it's money, as a small, portable, no-frills theatre controller, you would have to go a long, long way to find a programmable 24 channel desk for £150.00 or there abouts.

Jim

This post has been edited by JimWebber: 05 March 2008 - 10:52 AM



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#3 User is offline   Ynot 

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 10:51 AM

Hmmm... ™
Simple answer is yes and no...

Even if you use the moving heads in 2 pairs using the same channels for 2 lanterns, that will take 9 + 5 DMX channels - 14 total
Again, if you run the two dimmer packs at the same channels, that accounts for another 4 channels - total so far 18.
Then the two LED pars - once more if they're set at the same DMX addresses, then another 5 channels takes you to a grand total of 23 out of a max of 24 for the 2412.

BUT (and it's a BIG but...)........

The LC2412 is NOT a moving light desk and never will be.
Proper ML desks use attribute channels rather than discrete control channels, and as such you will have MAJOR problems trying to effectively control 1 mover, let alone 4.
Honestly?
Scrap trying to use the Behringer for movers and look at hiring/investing in a more suitable desk for the job.

Probably not what you wanted to hear, but that's the basic answer.

EDIT. GRRR...! Beaten by Jim! :)

This post has been edited by Ynot: 05 March 2008 - 10:52 AM

Hmmm... ™
I had a great business plan ... I was going to build bungalows for Snow White's seven dwarfs...
However, there was just one tiny flaw .............

#4 User is offline   Stewart Newlands 

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 10:59 AM

This is a 12 / 24 channel desk and is not that suitable for moving lights, It is designed to work best running 12 channels only. You are going to have to control your lights in groups not individually or use another desk. You could set the two dimmer dimmer packs to the same address (001) and run the par cans in pairs that would use 4 channels, then you could set both your LED pars to DMX address (005 or binary 101 if they have dip switches) as they use five channels that takes you up to 9.

The moving lights you have are not the same so you have a problem you could set the desk to the 24 channel wide mode and use this to control the more complex moving lights set to the same address and doing the same thing but you can't then control the other pair.

In short you need a different sort of desk to get the most out of your moving lights, this does not mean your existing desk is useless, it is Ideal for all your par cans and could be used together with a low cost moving light controller. There are many cheap units that can run up to 8 moving lights but may not be good at controlling par cans as well.

If you want to make the most of all your lights you need to spend far more money on a more complex lighting desk such as a "fat frog" made by zero 88.

lol I must be slow at typing...

This post has been edited by Stewart Newlands: 05 March 2008 - 11:00 AM

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#5 User is offline   Jase 

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 12:18 PM

View PostJimWebber, on 5 Mar 2008, 10:49 AM, said:

No, well, Yes, well No, well..... Uhhhmmmm...



Thanks for the replies gents, not what I wanted to hear but it makes me understand why the hell we couldn't fathom it out last night.

As for the presant desk we are using, it's an old Chauvet DMX-50.
ive learned a rapid lesson here in educating myself on thins before I purchse.



I bought it from thomann if anyone is wanting to buy one, I have this package for sale.

#6 User is offline   Gerry 

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 05:20 PM

When did yu buy the package?
Thomman give a 30 day no questions asked money back guarantee

Cheers
Gerry

#7 User is offline   Biskit 

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 05:48 PM

View PostGerry, on 5 Mar 2008, 5:20 PM, said:

When did yu buy the package?
Thomman give a 30 day no questions asked money back guarantee


As far as I know this is only true if the item is 100% untouched, fully packaged and in sealed bags, with everything just as it was when you first opened the box. In other words, ok for them to re-sell to someone else as 'brand new'! If you've had it out of the box and up and running, it is likely you will struggle to get it back in this condition.

I think the 30 days in intended more as a 'cooling off period' for when you order something online in a mad impulse but later realise you don't really need it after all!

#8 User is offline   Ynot 

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 06:01 PM

View PostBiskit, on 5 Mar 2008, 5:48 PM, said:

View PostGerry, on 5 Mar 2008, 5:20 PM, said:

When did yu buy the package?
Thomman give a 30 day no questions asked money back guarantee


As far as I know this is only true if the item is 100% untouched, fully packaged and in sealed bags, with everything just as it was when you first opened the box.

Well, if the web site info is to be believed...

Quote

30-Day Money-Back Guarantee
So you thought a particular product was the right one for you, and then you discover it's not. Well, that's life.
But no problem! We grant a 30-day money-back guarantee on any item you buy at Thomann - no hassles, no questions asked! (does not apply to products specially made or modified for you such as custom cases; software must be sealed and in its original, unopened packaging).

If you're not completely satisfied, please contact us, and we'll arrange for you a free return service (within Germany only).

Each Thomann parcel contains a return form in which you can specify if you want a refund credited to your customer account or transfered to your bank account or if you'd prefer a different Thomann product.

Please make sure you return the product in its original packaging including all accessories and be careful to avoid any signs of use!

That last bit clears the question up methinks...! :)
Hmmm... ™
I had a great business plan ... I was going to build bungalows for Snow White's seven dwarfs...
However, there was just one tiny flaw .............

#9 User is offline   Simon Lewis 

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 06:17 PM

View PostYnot, on 5 Mar 2008, 6:01 PM, said:

...Please make sure you return the product in its original packaging including all accessories and be careful to avoid any signs of use!


So the next purchaser gets a desk that's been fiddled with, but any little "mistakes" are polished over ? ;-)
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"

#10 User is offline   Duckfather 

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 08:05 PM

Well, I've just upgraded from an LC2412 to a Pulsar Masterpiece 108 from eBay, with the invaluable advice of the guys on here ;) (see this thread).

I'm controlling 8 LED par's and one moving head at the mo, but will be upgrading to a few more moving heads when funds allow. While this desk isn't dedicated to moving heads like some others, it will do 108 channels out of the box and 256 if you get into the PMX / DMX patching (from what I can see anyway, not got that deep yet, only had it a few days).

As was pointed out to me in the aforementioned thread, it's a very powerfull desk, without any of the 'foibles' that the LC2412 has (which I hasten to add, worked fine for me apart from the bugs with the outdated eprom before I upgraded past the 24 channel level). Just how powerfull, I didn't realise until I got it powered up with my lights :) .

And I managed to pick it up for £181 too. An added bonus for a desk that goes for ~£1800 new these days and only £50 more than the LC2412 (which I sold on eBay for almost the same price) ;)

My two penneth anyway

Andy

#11 User is offline   Rob_Beech 

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 08:31 PM

View PostSimon Lewis, on 5 Mar 2008, 6:17 PM, said:

View PostYnot, on 5 Mar 2008, 6:01 PM, said:

...Please make sure you return the product in its original packaging including all accessories and be careful to avoid any signs of use!


So the next purchaser gets a desk that's been fiddled with, but any little "mistakes" are polished over ? ;-)



The next purchaser gets a desk that's had a further stage of Quality Control.



I regularly get demo items from thomann to try them myself or show them to a client, then send them back, or do the client a deal on the demo unit etc . But, then again I deal with thomann a bit closer than alot of people so this may not always be possible for everyone.

Rob
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#12 User is offline   greenalien 

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 03:25 PM

Unless your Chauvet DMX-50 is broken, I'd stick with that - 192 DMX channels, (12 fixtures x 16 channels each), lots of scene memories and easy to override pre-programmed scenes and chases.

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