Duckfather Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 Hiya all I need some advice on upgrading my DMX light controller. I currently have a Behringer LC2412 (24 channel) controller, which is great, but I need to control more channels. I need at least 48 channels, but probably more for future expansion. I'm not controlling anything major, just LED PAR cans with 5 channels (and a few more effects of 4 or less), but may upgrade to effects that need 16 channels in the future (obviously if the desk can cope). Also, it has to be MIDI controllable (from a Behringer FCB1010 foot controller) as I play bass in the band the lighting rig is meant for. But it needs sound to light and step control of chases etc (controllable from MIDI) as things can obviously, errrmmm, change during a live performance . Not to mention a good memory for chases and programs (we can play for 4 hours+ some times! Although, admittedly, that's rare) I've been looking at an 'NFI 192' on eBay, but I'm a bit put off by the simple fact that there's no obvious manufacturers site with support etc. I've also been looking at a 'Showtec Showmaster 48'. Does anyone have any advice? Oh, and money is a bit of an issue, as I've just spent it all on lights :) Thanks in advance Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niclights Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 I think you should give indication of how much you want to spend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckfather Posted February 20, 2008 Author Share Posted February 20, 2008 Wrong forum. Reported for move. I think you should give indication of how much you want to spend. Fair enough ;) . I'm looking at about £200 max, but may go a tad more if needed :) Cheers Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMX Will Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 Your going to be hard pushed to find a 48ch (preset) desk for your budget. Remember the ShowTec controller you linked to, only controls 48 channels in single preset mode, if you are used to using two presets then this desk isn't suitable for your needs. If your not running the desk for performances... and doing live bands/music or discos, maybe consider a smaller controller, with less faders but more channels would be suitable. Have a look at the Stairville DMX Master from Thomann (www.thomann.de) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckfather Posted February 20, 2008 Author Share Posted February 20, 2008 Your going to be hard pushed to find a 48ch (preset) desk for your budget. Remember the ShowTec controller you linked to, only controls 48 channels in single preset mode, if you are used to using two presets then this desk isn't suitable for your needs. If your not running the desk for performances... and doing live bands/music or discos, maybe consider a smaller controller, with less faders but more channels would be suitable. Have a look at the Stairville DMX Master from Thomann (www.thomann.de) Thanks for the quick response :** laughs out loud **: Yup, that's more along the lines of what I'm after. I'm not too bothered about tons of faders for live control, as I'm normally a bit busy playing the bass. I will be controlling pre-programmed chases etc from MIDI and wanting to switch between step and sound activation from MIDI too. The only live control I'll be doing will be through the two expression pedals of the FCB1010 footswitch (either controlling speed, brightness or an individual channel). I can do this now through the LC2412 desk I have, but I've outgrown the 24 channels it provides ;) The Stairville DMX Master at www.thomann.de says that 'MIDI I/O is not yet supported by the software' though :) Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 If you are happy with the LC2412 you can connect a 2nd LC2412 via MIDI. Don't know if this gives you a total of 48 channels. Manual not clear on the function of connecting 2 LC2412s.CheersGerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckfather Posted February 20, 2008 Author Share Posted February 20, 2008 Yeah, the manual is a bit pants. It looks like it's just for controlling the other desk from the master. However, having two of these on stage with me is a bit of a no no as I'm limited on space at most venues. Besides, I may sell the LC2412 to up the money I have for it's replacement if I can find one worth it :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMX Will Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 Your going to be hard pushed to find a 48ch (preset) desk for your budget. Remember the ShowTec controller you linked to, only controls 48 channels in single preset mode, if you are used to using two presets then this desk isn't suitable for your needs. If your not running the desk for performances... and doing live bands/music or discos, maybe consider a smaller controller, with less faders but more channels would be suitable. Have a look at the Stairville DMX Master from Thomann (www.thomann.de) Thanks for the quick response :** laughs out loud **: Yup, that's more along the lines of what I'm after. I'm not too bothered about tons of faders for live control, as I'm normally a bit busy playing the bass. I will be controlling pre-programmed chases etc from MIDI and wanting to switch between step and sound activation from MIDI too. The only live control I'll be doing will be through the two expression pedals of the FCB1010 footswitch (either controlling speed, brightness or an individual channel). I can do this now through the LC2412 desk I have, but I've outgrown the 24 channels it provides ;) The Stairville DMX Master at www.thomann.de says that 'MIDI I/O is not yet supported by the software' though :) Andy Ah I didn't realise you wanted Midi Control. The DMX Master will however do both timed steps AND to the music steps. You also have 6 hot keys for the chases so you can have slow songs/fast songs/strobes/colour changing etc, it can also flick through the selected chases as well, however can only run one at any given point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckfather Posted February 20, 2008 Author Share Posted February 20, 2008 All good stuff, but without the MIDI control, it won't be feasable. Our perfomances can be 'fluid' shall we say, and I need to be able to make changes on the fly while playing. It's probably due to the alcohol content of the band members during the night ;) Since the Stairville DMX Master 1 can't currently be MIDI controlled, I've picked up on a few more :- BOTEX DC 1216 II SHOWTEC LIGHT DESK PRO 136 ROBE DMX CONTROL 512(possibly out of my price range) Showtec Scanmaster 1 DMX Controller Does anyone have any advice on these or could suggest something different that could meet the previously posted requirements? (be gentle with me, as I'm relatively new at lighting control :) ) Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andylights Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 How about a second hand Pulsar Masterpiece (108) - they are going on ebay at very good prices, given what the desk can do...£250-350 256 channels *216 scenes54 chases48 environments However, looking at the MIDI implementation chart, only scene memory 10 & 11 (36 scenes) and chase memory 3 (18 chases) are available directly from MIDI. Although ALL 3 environments (48 locations) are available - you can store anything in an environment - scene,chase or a combination. The desk also has sound to light input (via mic or line) - you can only use this via programming and not via MIDI, but you can step forward and backward in a selected chase via MIDI. You would of course have to start from scratch with learning a new programming method, but don't believe all you read here, it's not that difficult, especially as you already have a head start. I use a Pearl and MP all the time, but found the LC 2412 the most infuriating desk on the planet! http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PULSAR-MASTERPIECE-1...1QQcmdZViewItem HTH Regards, Andy * edit re memory spec' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckfather Posted February 21, 2008 Author Share Posted February 21, 2008 So that would give me 48 locations x 36 scenes (1728 scenes) or 48 locations x 18 chases (864 chases) accessable via MIDI? Or am I on the wrong track with this (remember, I'm still very new to lighting control). I'm assuming that a location is equivalent to a bank. I've seen these on eBay and have been intruiged by the apparent interface. Are those touch sensitive sliders? It certainly seems like a lot of desk for a little money (they're selling for £1800 new :) ) You're right about the LC2412. It can be a real pig to get it to do what you want, but it's certainly helped me to get the basics of DMX control sorted the hard way :( Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andylights Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Not quite... Firstly, I've edited my post re a typo with channels and scenes. The MP108 can control 256 channels of DMX (it can actually control 512 if you use the softpatch - but ignore that). Some further detail:There are 216 scenes. A scene is a lighting 'state' - one or more channels. The scenes are grouped into 12 locations, each having 18 memories. So you might refer to a scene as Sc3.14 That's scene memory 3, pad 14. The pads are the 18 keys along the bottom of the desk and are used to access scenes, chases and environments. 12x18 gives you 216 scenes, but scene 12 has special functions for sound 2 light only. (The 18 locations sc12. 1-18, are divided into three, four band sound to light processors. Plus a further four for joystcik control). So in reality there are 11x18 scenes (198). Only Sc10 and Sc11 are accessible DIRECTLY via MIDI (that's 36 scenes, 2x18) A chase is a sequence of scenes. There are 54 individual chases. All can be set to trigger in various ways, Auto, manual, sound. But only Chase3 (18 memories) can be called DIRECTLY from MIDI. The Environment memory can hold a combination of scenes, chases and individual channels. In other words you could use one environment to turn on four chases and ten scenes. But it doesn't have to - it could just have one chase or one scene. As all Environment memories (48) can be called from MIDI you could use these to playback the scenes and chases that can't be accessed directly from MIDI. Just remember that a scene (or chase) in an environment can't be edited within the environment, you have to go back to it's original location to make any changes. If you use all 54 chases and then use them within environments, they are still the original 54 chases. Hope that makes sense! Regards, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckfather Posted February 21, 2008 Author Share Posted February 21, 2008 That makes perfect sense. And has certainly given me a better idea of the power of the desk! It's a little bit more than I was expecting to pay (depending on the deal on eBay obviously), but the extra functionality it provides certainly seems to be well worth it! I've even managed to find some online tutorials for it ;) Looks like I'll be monitoring eBay for these then :( Thanks for all the invaluable help :) Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andylights Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 One last thing - in doing a little searching about the FCB1010 (I've been looking for a replacement controller for use with multi-effects and Theremin), I found this site ,that also has a PC editor. Regards, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckfather Posted February 21, 2008 Author Share Posted February 21, 2008 Ahead of you on that one :) The FCB1010 turns into a great gigging tool with the Uno firmware upgrade. It irons out a few bugs in the Behringer firmware and adds some great extras. The main ones (for me anyway) are the ability to use the pedal as a stompbox and the ability to modify the velocity of the expression pedals. And the community there are very helpfull too, which is a nice bonus :( . The pedal itself was by far the best functionality wise for the price, and it's pretty damn solid unlike some others. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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