China's Glowing!!!!

[WKENNISON]

Hi Guys! This forum has been a huge help to me, so I tough I would join and ask for some input. I'm based in the US and have noticed there seems to generally be more knowledge here of the fixtures available from China on here than on the US boards.

 

So that said, I'd like to start a thread which compiles a list of Chinese manufacturers and any experience that anyone has had in dealing with them or using their products. I'm trying to find the best manufacturer for my investment dollar as I would ultimately like to begin distributing here in the US.

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

heehee

[Ekij]

A more appropriate place for this might be the wiki (rather than a thread).

[Chris Beesley]

Most of the guys here will not recognise the manufacturers you have found as they usually purchase products branded with importers logo's etc. Those that do recognise the brand may not disclose the fact as it reveals the source of their products.

 

Sorry I cant help any further.

[paulears]

Chris is correct here - I've never heard of any of that lot - although I suspect I may well have some of their kit - we're used to certain names over here, and rarely do the retailers reveal their sources, for pretty obvious reasons!

[ceecrb1]

UNFORTUNATELY (please note that word)

 

I work for a company where the Managing Director has discovered how cheap it is to buy the chinese versions of lighting equipment, hence he and a manger were in china for a week just two weeks ago.. buying!

MARIO (ie MARTIN copies) lights etc

 

Heres our problem

 

(for example) we have "city colours" from china, and everything is great, they work just as well as whats more easily available here etc untill they break down...

it is a ROYAL pain in the a$$ (near impossible) to get parts for them!! EVEN the DMX XLR is SOMEHOW different and neutriks dont connect with them so we've had to leave the supplied cables connected with big DO NOT REMOVE stickers so there is less chance of them being damaged..

"they work just as well" is actually a little inacurate, the shutters use a cheap metal which expands when heat is applied (ie when shutter closed) so they wont reopen after 30seconds... and being large HMI's they arnt dimmable...

the only way round this problem we've found is to close the shutter, THEN apply ALL colours (which are between the shutters and the lamp) so less light/heat reaches the shutters... then open the colours momentarily before the shutters..

its a pain but we found a solution and its never stoped an event from running smothely

 

Like I say.. alls great but when your buying, make sure they use standard parts or you can get hold of the non-standard parts!

 

At the moment when one fails its in my workshop for over a month just waiting for parts to arrive... not great if your business is high speed and the equipment is essential!

 

HAVING SAID THAT.. I'm in europe, (spain to be exact) and your in USA and I cant comment on the parts or availability of parts.. this is just the experience we are having in our company with the products we bought

 

Tomorrow at work I'll check to see if any of the companies you listed match up to the kit we've got...

 

EDIT: just noticed your looking to distribute, so for the spare parts argument... its even more important if YOUR clients come back to you for parts (in my view of a good customer service)

[WKENNISON]

hmm, good input. I figure anyone that knows they're buying imported goods they would do the research and find where they originated.

 

I suppose the best thing to do to "protect my investment" would be to delete the above list!! :)

 

If you have any experience whatsoever with Chinese imports I would greatly appreciate additional input.

 

Thanks

 

Wes

[dunk_1984]

I am by no means an expert on Chinese imports etc, but one of the big things that was noted by a lot of people was when Mackie moved the manufacture of their powered speakers to china and all of a sudden lots of units were breaking/getting sent back, not exactly what you were asking but of some relevance I think.

[WKENNISON]

I am by no means an expert on Chinese imports etc, but one of the big things that was noted by a lot of people was when Mackie moved the manufacture of their powered speakers to china and all of a sudden lots of units were breaking/getting sent back, not exactly what you were asking but of some relevance I think.

 

That's always the big debate is it not? Are all of China's goods just substandard, or are the people doing the importing not looking hard enough to find the right manufacturer?... and if they do would it still be worth the money to import and distribute the goods (assuming higher quality costs more)?

 

I'd like to believe (which could be my problem) that China doesn't import highend, robe, and martin for ALL of it's lighting needs (meaning their big scale productions are "in house" to at least some degree). So who's the big manufacturer?

 

I suppose the more I hear from people who have had experience with these companies the more I'll be able to make a more informed decision.

 

Keep it comin!

 

 

Wes

[Tomo]

China doesn't import highend, robe, and martin for ALL of it's lighting needs (meaning their big scale productions are "in house" to at least some degree). So who's the big manufacturer?

I get the feeling that parts availability isn't an issue when actually in China.

After all, they can probably get the factory to send spares directly, especially if the event is government subsidised!

 

The issues I've seen with the Chinese imports are twofold:

1) Some (many?) break patents and copyright.

- Inside China, they don't care, as nobody is going to know or do anything about it. As the importer, you may run into trouble! (France has particularly draconian laws regarding this!)

 

2) Build quality is extremely variable, and R&D is close to zero - most of these items are simple clones of something else (see no. 1)

- A side effect of this is that you're unlikely to get an identical unit next time you order.

 

This means that if you're after kit that is cheap to do a couple of gigs or for permanent install, and you don't mind having to send several back to the supplier for out-of-box failures with no certainty of replacement, then the imports are ok.

 

However, if you are intending to supply:

The supplier may have to eat the cost of out-of-box failures - most order an entire container of 'item', and have no real way to send it back for credit.

- You'll need to confirm the returns policy that applies to you with the Chinese end.

Not all of this equipment actually passes the CE and/or UL requirements (despite the sticker) - in the EU, the importer takes responsibility for ensuring CE compliance and the penalty should it be found not to. I suspect it is similar in the US.

[Chris Beesley]

Importing from China is a whole different work process compared to buying from an importer - there are very few products that can be taken "off the shelf" from chinese manufacturers and many need input, R&D and testing by the importer before they are safe for market.

[GregB]

Dead right Chris. You could be in a world of s*%t if your importing clones that don't conform to your local standards (EMC testing...)

With regards to spare parts there are non once the batch is through being built, (wich could be thousands depending on manufacturer).

As a supplier the way around this would be to buy several containers worth of product and keep a margin for spares/returned. I would also be tempted to put some kind of disclaimer in-place of any warranty you would normally offer. :)

[musht]

Best quote heard about importing Chinese product is:

 

"You get what you Inspect not what you Expect"

 

Figure in the cost of a couple of return trips to China in your costs, buying trip and delivery trip to physically see your container being loaded.

 

Thread linked from here few months ago about counterfeit thermal fuses used in a domestic lighting product being retailed by massive UK chain. The thermal fuses in question looked real, carried all the approval marks, but were just a lump of plastic with wires protruding.

[WKENNISON]

Great input guys thanks!

 

R+D is an most definitely an integral part of the plan for the future, I'm in the phase right now of trying to find the manufacturer who has the most to work with in terms of "blank slate value" if you will.

 

I suppose I'm just trying to avoid the normal pitfalls that happen when people sink their own money into a project. I've talked to numerous people who have exported in the past (not these particular products unfortunately) and the common theme seems to be that you get you put into it, if you invest the money and time to make a trip to China then it's much closer to a sure thing than if you rely on e-mail and a letter of credit!!

 

Thanks to all who have contributed, I'd love to hear more!

 

 

Wes

[Jonny DMX]

I work on motorshows all over the world and it is not uncommon to see some companies using ETC Source4 Par copies. I have had the opportunity to play with some of these fixtures and have found the build quality and optics to be hugely inferior! Additionally there is also a number of Source4 Power Par copies (a Power Par is a Daylight Par that uses a 575W MSR Lamp for those who are unsure) that seem to have very poor optics that seem to give the light a slight green hue. Also worth noting, the Chinese copies do NOT use a lens with a UV filter, the ETC ones do. If you choose to use these you could find yourself with some interesting lawsuits if you give anyone sunburn!! (it has happened!)

 

As with most things, yes the Chinese copies are cheaper, but you get what you pay for! From what I can see it seems that the companies that make these copies copy how the fixture looks and don't really think about what the fixture does, how it works, how it might be used, where it might get hot and who might use it! Don't be fooled by the attractive price tag.

 

Jonny

[MrBoomal]

I have a number of Chinese Source 4 copies called Moonlight 750's. Unfortunately they forgot to drill the hole for the 750 pin so you can't use an HPL 750.

They have a massive centre hotspot, and the surround reflection is like a parasol. They throw about half the light of a proper Source 4. They are simply AWFUL.