Mixing desk, which one?

[dannyboi]

I don't know too much about sound but I need a good mixing desk for a new theatre being built.

 

Most of the desks I've seen so far have too many microphone channels.

 

What I need is a mixer with at least 4 mic channels and 6 line in stereo channels or 12 line in mono, and a good XLR output with separate headphone output.

 

Any one know of a simile desk?

 

Thanks in advance

 

 

Danny boi

[mac.calder]

You are after a run of the mill 18 channel mixer.

 

Most 18chans I have seen, have 2 or 3 stereo, 14 or 12 mono.

 

4 mono channels to microphones (they plug into the XLR Low-Z input)

 

6/4 mono channels (they plug into 2 of the 5 1/4" High-Z inputs each and you change the stereo balance full left for one, full right for the other)

 

2/3 stereo channels for the remaining

 

and you have 2 spare mono inputs, either for an extra stereo source, giving you 7 stereo, or 2 more mono, giving 6 mono.

 

What you go for depends on budget and any other specs you have.

[bruce]

...I need a good mixing desk for a new theatre being built.

 

Most of the desks I've seen so far have too many microphone channels.

 

What I need is a mixer with at least 4 mic channels and 6 line in stereo channels

 

Obvioulsy I don't know the details of the install, but the usual problem is not having enough mic channels!. The last event I was involved with, which was a relatively small-scale school show, used 5 hardwired mics and 9 radios - and we didn't even think about micing the orchestra...

 

It's a new build. Aim higher than you think you need to. You don't HAVE to use all the channels all the time, but unless budget is ridiculously tight, it's best to start off with some spare capacity.

[Sim]

It's a new build. Aim higher than you think you need to. You don't HAVE to use all the channels all the time, but unless budget is ridiculously tight, it's best to start off with some spare capacity.

 

You never really know what your going to do. Best to get more channels then have to upgrade when you start doing more complex stuff. But this still does depend on budget.

[Bobbsy]

Just to expand on what previous posters have said, on virtually every desk out there the "mic" channels are, in fact, mic/line channels. Sometimes there's an "A/B" switch between mic and line on each channel; other times it's just a matter of switching in a "pad". However, you generally have as many line inputs as you want.

 

Don't assume that you can only feed line inputs into something labelled "stereo". Most boards have a couple of these. Generally these let you put two halves of a stereo signal on a single fader, but often compromise by not having the same EQ and/or Aux facilities as the mic/line channels. Quite often, as a soundman, I'll use a pair of standard inputs in preference to the dedicated stereo ones.

 

The other thing I'd recommend is NOT to underestimate the number of mic channels you might want in the future. Obviously I don't know your situation so there might be special circumstances. However, I've seen a great many theatres say "we never use mics" only to do something unusual (a rock musical for example) and suddenly need different facilities. No, I'm not saying you have to rush out and buy a 52 channel Cadac...but I suggest you go for as much flexibility as you can afford.

 

One more comment is that, for theatre use, the number of outputs is often as important (or even more so) than the number of inputs. Besides a simple FOH pair, it's pretty common to need to provide monitor speakers, feeds to spot effects, feeds for video or backstage relay purposes, feeds to special effects boxes, feeds to multitrack record the show, etc etc.

 

As for what YOU need, it's hard to be specific without knowing more about your needs...and your budget. I guess what I can say is that the bargain basement end is Behringer (not great quality but cheap and decent value). Next step up (and a step I recommend you take) would be to Soundcraft or Allen & Heath who make far more robust, better sounding boards, still not costing the earth. And, if you have a large lottery grant, you can always dream about Midas and Cadac!

 

...and I won't confuse you by going onto my usual "digital is the way ahead" lecture!

 

Bob

[Simon Lewis]

I don't know too much about sound but I need a good mixing desk for a new theatre being built.

 

Forgive me if this appears rude, but shouldn't someone who does know about sound be making the choice?!

 

Most of the desks I've seen so far have too many microphone channels.

 

I'd echo the other poster's comments. You can even use the Behringer line input mixer to give extra line inputs (duh!) and these come free with cornflake packets (almost). Getting extra good quality mic inputs is harder and more expensive.

 

What I need is a mixer with at least 4 mic channels and 6 line in stereo channels or 12 line in mono, and a good XLR output with separate headphone output.

 

The I'd suggest the Allen & Heath MixWizard WZ3 20s (look here).

 

Any one know of a simile desk?

"a figure of speech that expresses a resemblance between things of different kinds? " ;-)

 

Simon

[Tomo]

Sorry, but why are you the one asking this question?

 

Not only are you merely a student at the school in question, but Whitelight has already been contracted to do it.

Given this, I'd be very surprised if the design is not already set in stone - schools budget fairly far in advance.

[Pete]

Sorry, but why are you the one asking this question?

 

Not only are you merely a student at the school in question, but Whitelight has already been contracted to do it.

Given this, I'd be very surprised if the design is not already set in stone - schools budget fairly far in advance.

 

 

Ahhhhhhh White light doing a sound install :( :D

 

Sound shouldn't be left in the hands of lampies!Really it shouldn't!Seriously I know (a few) people who've had problems after an Lx company has done a sound install.

[dannyboi]

No White light are not doing the sound, that has been left to the Music dept. but he is not bothered with it as he is involved in his new sound studio and the theatre isn't going to be used by him anyways. The theatre is barely built. White light has not been given the plans yet, but the Lighting team (including me) know what they want in there though.

 

Our Drama Teacher doesn't know anything about DMX but as hes been waiting for his new theatre for centuries hes got a large budget. As the past years hes had next to nothing because the Head wants nothing to be spent until the theatre is built. So our teacher has given us a good idea of the building and told us to think bout it and come back with ideas.

 

But us Lighting crew people, the creative ones, want to know how everything works and how its all going to happen. The only thing is we don't have a sound crew so that's been left to the Music head of department which isn't getting anywhere.

[Bobbsy]

Out of curiousity, who's doing the rest of the planning: mics, cables, amps, speakers, crossovers, EQ, etc etc etc? A single mixer (especially specced by somebody who doesn't think he needs mic inputs) does not make a sound installation.

 

We've been around this loop in the BR before, but I'm getting sick of the way money is wasted in the school system by people who don't know what they're doing....and students who think they know everything. I'm almost to the stage of wishing they'd pack up, convert the rooms to lecture halls and stop playing at theatre before the waste any more of my tax money.

 

Bob

[dannyboi]

The Head of Music teacher is doing most of the spec for the room but he is busy with specing his new sound studio and he is an expert at all this.

 

A single mixer (especially specced by somebody who doesn't think he needs mic inputs) does not make a sound installation.

The mixer is just the start of it, we will sort out everything, like the amps are already bought, and the reason for the next-to-non mic channels is because the Music teacher has recommended that we don't prepare for many mic-channels as there will be a whole separate mixer for them which will not be fitted but portable, as the drama dept. don't need many mics as we don't use them in this size situation and the voice overs are all pre-recorded (in the new sound studio).

 

....and students who think they know everything.

I'm not saying I know everything! I here to learn, that's why I'm asking questions.

 

And if there's no feed from the schools to Unis etc. there would be no technical theatre and therefor no job for you.

[dbuckley]

I think its important to differentiate the uses to which the theatre will be put.

 

In my experience, shcool theatres rarely (and in many cases, ever) put on full scale shows that warrant the expense of purchasing a large desk that can cater for such a thing. A couple of lectern mics is more the normal fare, and some playback. So a few mic channels and a few stereo ins is probably entirely adequate for the job. However, given that schools are fairly hostile places, I would suggest that something mechanically fairly tough would be advisable, which would rule out the single board desks without bolted in pots.

 

Drifting vaguely :D the number one thing that winds me up about desks is lack of stero inputs, getting more than four stereo channels as standard fitment seems next to impossible, and pairs of mono channels are an ugly substitute at best.

[Bobbsy]

Oh dear...another disagreement, dbuckley! In my analogue days I used to quite often chose to use pairs of mono channels instead of the stereo ones because of the slightly increased flexibility in routing and level control. Where I did want true links, I'd use fader bridges like this:

 

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c188/Bobbsy/Faderbridge.jpg

 

Nowadays, on my Yamaha digital boards, there's not such thing as stereo channels anyway...but I can "pair" any combination of adjacent faders I want, often "vertically" so I only use on fader on a layer, paired with one the next layer down.

 

And, dannyboi, sorry you caught my rant about schools. Of course I want them to keep doing theatre: my 17 year old daughter is head of sound at her school this year! However, I hope you share my frustration about how often money is wasted because systems are not properly planned by people who understand what they're doing.

 

Bob

[BenWall]

and pairs of mono channels are an ugly substitute at best.

 

I must disagree with you on this, dependent on the desk I am using I MUCH prefer to have stereo channels broken down into two faders. Main reasoning behind this is because I have individual control over the input gain for each side of the track i.e. left & right. The amount of material I have used in the past where everything sounds like its been panned over way to much to one side, thus having separate control over left and right means that I can adjust as needed!

 

However, I know on some desks, for example A&H their stereo input channel has two gain controls per channel, one for left and one for right! So on the rare occasion I do use A&H I know I do not need to consider breaking the stereo input!

 

I suppose it is a personal choice (or sound designers)- and what sounds best to you!

 

Ben. :D

[dbuckley]

... I used to quite often chose to use pairs of mono channels ... Where I did want true links, I'd use fader bridges like this

Very nice dear. Do you have something similar for the EQ and sends :D

 

All of which leads me to <rant> number two - why is it that everyone assumes that desks with small numbers of channels need no routing flexibility at all... grrr </rant>

 

Digital is the answer though in the word of theatre. Digital always gives you instant recall, MIDI and VCAs irrespective of desk size.