Small venue / small lighting

[BenEdwards]

Currently we have a Fresnal and were ruing a micro setup with a couple of other parcan type lamps (which we no longer have access to). Have £250 to spend. Seen a local 4 channel dimmer on ebay. hopeful can get it for under £40. Thinking of getting a very basic 6 channel controller (£30).

 

The stage is around 5*5 meters (possible smaller).

 

LED pars are probably a little too pricey for us, looking at the wattage of the cheap ones they seems to be around 20watts which is kind of useful if everything is on full but guessing for any colors 10w is probably the most which is fairly pathetic, or am I wrong?

 

Maybe Stairville LED PAR 56 black 151 LEDs RGB or Stairville LED PAR 56 10mm Black RGB are worth considering?, thomann.de seem to do a number of sub £50 LED parcans but not sure which would be best. Maybe someone else dose better ones. Thinking using them on the front/floor of stage may be the best way to go. Think the Freznel/par 56 totally wipe them out? probably need 2 led PAR. Wold use MagicQ Software if we were rumming LEDs.

 

We would be running on 13amp (domestic) dimmer packs . We may get 2 4 channel (will plug in to different mains circuits so should be able to run just over 2k of each. 500w plus 3*300w gives us 1400 watts on each dimmer pack. could go upto 500 for each channel.

 

We have the Fresnel (think it is 300 or 500 watt) and if we dont get LED thinking of getting 3 more lamps to start with. Was thinking par 56.

 

Also thinking of maybe using some 300-500 work lights to make some DIY floods. Was thinking of gelling them R G B to give us any wash color we want. Does that sound sensible?

 

Was thinking PAR was better than flood as we can have various angles depending on lamp. Looks like the WFL lamps go to around 25% which may be enough.

 

Sorry about the rambling nature of the post. I started thinking LED were out but it would be great if we could get a couple for a wash but worried they would not work with incandescent/halogen lamps. Would 2 LED parcan and 2 traditional (narrow spots) work or would we need 4 LEDs?

 

Ben

[timsabre]

Those cheap led pars with lots of small leds are no good for lighting things up because the beam is very narrow and they are not very bright. They are pretty to look at if that's what you want.

 

You can't gel 500w halogen floods very well. They will burn through the gel in no time.

 

What type of show are we talking about here?

[Brian]

Small stage, flexibility and low budget to me says fresnels.

 

eBay is awash with 500/650W fresnels for £40 each. Four of those, a £40 DMX dimmer pack, a cheapo controller or DMX dongle, and a few cables will fit nicely in your budget.

 

A fresnel set wide will give you a nice colour wash; leave them open and set wide for a useful general purpose 'can we have some light on the stage?' uses. Spotted down they are quite acceptable for highlighting a single area.

 

IMHO, LED PARs are an addition to a basic rig, not the basis of a basic rig.

[ImagineerTom]

Be wary that many of the "cheep" 4 channel DMX dimmer packs actually use more than 4 channels (they have in-built chases and fades) and may require you to send an odd value on a different channel any time you want to put them in to simple dimmer mode. ie it's not always as simple as buying a 4 channel dimmer, patching it to a simple controller and moving a fader to make the lights do what you want. Check the model and instruction manual carefully before buying the dimmer.

[BenEdwards]

Thanks everyone. There are a couple of 300w ones for £60 but did spot this.

 

The dimmer pack is here. Its a multidim iec mkII, Never set any of this up, only know the princaple. Are these likely to be OK?

 

Is the idea of rigging a worklights with R,G and B gels not a goer (for wash with a few Fresnels) ?

 

As normal you guys rock;).

 

Ben

[timsabre]

Is the idea of rigging a worklights with R,G and B gels not a goer?

 

Really no for lots of reasons, but mainly because the gels will just melt, and even if you can bodge up a way to keep the gels on them you will get hardly any useful light out of them if you gel them in R G B.

 

On the face of it it seems like a good idea, but once you have tried it you will see why not.

 

 

I've used some fresnels similar to those Thomann ones and they are not great. They are huge and heavy and not very efficient at putting light out. If you can find some 2nd hand Strand, CCT, Selecon, Spotlight ones they are much better

[alistermorton]

If time isn't tight then I'd echo what others have said - see if you can find some second hand "major brand" fresnels. I've picked up quite a few Strand Quartet F lanterns for about 30-40 quid each which are not bad.

[BenEdwards]

Thanks, time is fairly tight. May have to get a couple of the cheap Fresnals to tie us over for next performsance;(. I guess they are better than parcam 56 (I have a couple of 64s they can borrow).

 

Ben

[timsabre]

Thanks, time is fairly tight. May have to get a couple of the cheap Fresnals to tie us over for next performsance;(.

 

Your cheap Thomann fresnel £40 does not include the lamp which is another £10.

So you'd be spending £100, for that you could hire 8 proper fresnels like selecon acclaims for a week.

[Shez]

Your cheap Thomann fresnel £40 does not include the lamp which is another £10.

Doesn't include a mains plug or barndoors either. You'll also want to add a hook clamp and a safety. Suddenly it's not quite as cheap as it looks...

[paulears]

I know I'm a pedantic old twit - but please let's get Monsieur Fresnel's name right!

[erik10_4]

Would just like to echo what others have said about the cheap versions of new Fresnel's out there. I bought one similar unit some time ago, was disappointed with the size/quality/effectiveness and ended up selling it on. Doing stuff just for charity and therefore being self-funded (saving up my beer money http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif ) I've had to build up slowly and hired the kit for our first show. In the long term I wholeheartedly agree that second hand, decent quality units are preferable. Over 12 months I managed to get 5 CCT Fresnel's, 3 Pulsar PC's and 3 strand profiles on eBay at very reasonable prices (about £30 each) but I have to say that I find very few decent 500/650w units available for that sort of price these days (even used barndoors are being sold at £25 - £35!).

[ImagineerTom]

...and those "cheep dimmers" you've linked to look exactly like the ones with built in programs and quirks - though there are many unit which look similar but have totally different protocols inside. Look up that specific model and read the instruction manual fully before bidding on something that might not be suitable.

[BenEdwards]

Would just like to echo what others have said about the cheap versions of new Fresnel's out there. I bought one similar unit some time ago, was disappointed with the size/quality/effectiveness and ended up selling it on. Doing stuff just for charity and therefore being self-funded (saving up my beer money http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif ) I've had to build up slowly and hired the kit for our first show. In the long term I wholeheartedly agree that second hand, decent quality units are preferable. Over 12 months I managed to get 5 CCT Fresnel's, 3 Pulsar PC's and 3 strand profiles on eBay at very reasonable prices (about £30 each) but I have to say that I find very few decent 500/650w units available for that sort of price these days (even used barndoors are being sold at £25 - £35!).

 

Thanks, what should I be looking for? Never ever 'paird' and dimmers with controllers.

 

 

 

[Jivemaster]

The first two things to look for are somewhere to get the power from, and something(s) to hang the lights from. (Oh!) and then there is connecting wire and connectors.

 

Personally I like tungsten PAR 56's for places where there is little power or budget, at 300w there is fair light out but minimal power consumption and they are not expensive to buy.

 

Your optimum lighting rig will always depend on the intended use of the space.