Sound system in a multi-purpose building

[richardash1981]

I'm in the very early stages of thinking about a new building that would replace an existing church and church hall with one multi-purpose space (which means it would have church services, dance and exercise groups, toddler group on a weekly basis, and less frequent events including amatuer music concerts (we have hosted brass band, choirs etc.).

The current church building has a very modest PA and hearing loop system, which is used for speakers, video soundtracks and a few singers mics to lead worship (with piano and organ which are not through the PA). It also provides sound for audio and video recording to be distributed to those who can't be there in person. At the moment that is almost the only use of the church building, we have a Soundcraft EPM12 mixer which I operate and stays set up from week to week. Concert rigs are ad-hoc, mostly my personal gear.

The hall has a power amplifier and speakers installed, but only used for ad hoc events when I am there and bring a mixer of some sort. The speakers aren't very capable and wouldn't last long if abused. The dance and exercise class leaders either bring, or store in limited space on site, their own active speakers fed from their laptop/phone. Some hall users lament the lack of a loop / microphone system, especially with older audiences.

For the new building it seems to sensible to think about power amp and digital "stagebox" mixer stashed in a secure cupboard somewhere which users should not need to physcially access, but can control digitally. Most of the microphones can be locked away between services, it wouldn't be too painful to imagine having a dedicated budget wired microphones to be used by specific regular user groups and stored by them in between.

Provided that sufficient inputs / outputs are accessible (I'm imagining wiring out to wall boxes) I can see this covering the church services, with a suitable tablet as control surface. Particularly complex concerts could feed an external stereo mix in from a larger FoH mixer. Where I get stuck is providing a simple way for non-technical users to put the installed system into a known state and turn up/down the volume of a couple of inputs - in other words, providing a user interface like a typical 100V mixer amp, but on a digital mixer back end. As many users are going to be close on retired and not terribly keen on technology, I would prefer this to be a hardware interface rather than an App they have to load on their device (and worry about connecting to the correct WiFi network etc.).

Edited October 1, 2022 by richardash1981
Pressed post too soon.

[richardash1981]

Does anyone have any suggestions, or experience that I'm thinking about this completely the wrong way?

[sandall]

Probably doesn't help, but this was an installation I did for a multi-use church about 10 years ago, where the client insisted on having physical faders. The budget was really tight, so any usable bits from the previous system, like the Philips speech columns, were retained. It gives the non-technical user a Music & a Speech master fader. Tablet control wasn't really a viable option then, & would have been rejected by the client.

Not totally foolproof, as the QU16 firmware didn't allow selective lockout of routing, etc, so relies on nobody destroying ALL the copies of the set-up memory, but I've only had to go back when the elderly loop amp failed.

[Stuart91]

4 hours ago, richardash1981 said:

Where I get stuck is providing a simple way for non-technical users to put the installed system into a known state and turn up/down the volume of a couple of inputs - in other words, providing a user interface like a typical 100V mixer amp, but on a digital mixer back end.

What I've sometimes done is kept a small notepad-style mixer accessible for the non-technical users, whilst providing either an easy changeover when the main desk is in play, or simply combining the two sets of outputs before the amplifiers.

It becomes a little more complicated if you're needing to feed a loop amp / recorders / lobby speakers etc. at the same time.  

[J Pearce]

You probably want to look at proper install kit rather than live sound kit. Allen and Heath's AHM is a fairly affordable setup that can offer hardware controllers as well as tablet control.

Be aware that installing this sort of system opens you up to being tech support 24/7, and something not working will be your fault even if it isn't. Sometimes, each dance tutor having their own active speaker is just easier.

[mac.calder]

So there are 2 options that were my go to with churches when I worked install land.

Option 1: side by side systems - I'd use something like a QSys DSP - select channels went through the DSP and then were made available via dante to the mixer before any processing - alternatively I would do an isolated split before it enters the DSP. Audio from mixer goes back into the DSP and then to FOH. The general user control was given via touch panel or button panel.

Option 2: install a good mixer and recall presets on the mixer via a control system (or via instructions on a laminated A4 sheet)

Option 1 is a great user experience, there does tend to be a couple of little things the sound engineer needs to know (ie certain channels have phantom power managed by the DSP etc)

Option 2 is when I had a client who (frankly) didn't care about the user experience and wanted maximum control when they were running a service... Because option 2 relied on no one overwriting presets on the desk, or turning it off, or any one of a myriad of other things.

Edited October 2, 2022 by mac.calder

[sunray]

Personally I've found churches work ok with a desk like a soundcraft F1 and a fixed/locked cover over everything above the faders and once up and running to use tape or paint obvious marks where the faders should be.

Main outs become Loop via compressor if the driver doesn't include a successful version & all the Rest

Amplifiers and any ancilliary kit similarly marked but also locked away (even more secure than nightclubs) from finger gepoken type persons.

That way they can play to their hearts content but restoring to the 'standard setting' is simple observation.

 

I find the visiting dance teachers tend to come in with their combie regardless of what system is installed.

[richard_cooper]

On 10/2/2022 at 10:13 AM, sunray said:

I find the visiting dance teachers tend to come in with their combie regardless of what system is installed.

Speaking as someone who has provided for/managed something close to dance teachers in random "venues to hire", I always made sure they had a backup if they needed music. I lost count of the times in the school hall/church hall/community centre/town hall/"professional venue" second space/etc. that the installed system wasn't working/ nobody had the keys/ you're not allowed to (by the caretaker)/someone had fiddled with it/the power switch was in an in use meeting room... The upshot was that it was far easier, consistent, and reliable for those teachers to use their own system.

 

[sunray]

2 hours ago, richard_cooper said:

Speaking as someone who has provided for/managed something close to dance teachers in random "venues to hire", I always made sure they had a backup if they needed music. I lost count of the times in the school hall/church hall/community centre/town hall/"professional venue" second space/etc. that the installed system wasn't working/ nobody had the keys/ you're not allowed to (by the caretaker)/someone had fiddled with it/the power switch was in an in use meeting room... The upshot was that it was far easier, consistent, and reliable for those teachers to use their own system.

 

and something I fully understand