Basic DMX Scene player

[richardash1981]

Can I get something simple (and cheap) to output a single DMX state as soon as the mains comes on, and not mind being turned off from the mains again?

The background is that my church has a display at key times of year outside in a wooden "hut", which is lit with some 12V LED strip. Power comes from inside using a cheap DMX PWM LED driver (ebay etc.). The whole lot is on a mains time switch to turn it on and off each day when no-one is there. To date DMX has come from a Phillips Sixer DMX controller (one of the basic ones with 7 faders controlling 6 channels and master directly, no programming). This works fine, because the faders don't move and so it outputs what you set it to, and the lights come on like you left them.

Unfortunately, this Easter I need the Phillips Sixer DMX controller to do something else (with a real human operating it, or at least turning the master up and down). So I need something else to provide DMX input to the LED controller for outside.

I can see this is slightly niche, it seems the options are:

1. Get another similar DMX controller (not especially cheap, and rather flickery if you try to use them for anything more than fixed set because they only output at 10Hz).
2. Use a scene controller like the Botex SD10 (https://www.thomann.de/gb/botex_sd10.htm), but the manual isn't especially clear about what happens if you just turn it on and don't touch the buttons at all.
3. Get a slightly better controller, but I'm not sure what else will power up straight into manual control, without needing (non-technical) users to navigate buttons and menus.

[pscandrett]

I've PM'd you about a Swisson XRC-200, but you might find it easier/as easy to hire another lighting desk for your 'something else' and use the Sixer for your LED strip, if you know that works. You can then use the hired/acquired desk for your main show over Easter...?

[sandall]

Assuming the "Sixer" is merely a rebadge of the Strand version, this appears to be a generic Chinese offering, which appeared with different names, knobs & ridiculously cheap prices, at the same time as the Strand one, so may well be available to hire or on the usual auction site. Probably safer to leave the Sixer where it is.

[boswell]

Look at this

https://tinyurl.com/yuh9sj6w

 

[xllx]

There are loads of little 6way desks available from the likes of Botex, Stairville, Elation etc. All probably the same inside!

All about £30 from Thomann or on eBay.

Probably your cheapest way of doing what you need, and simple and reliable.

If your other show would benefit from a slightly more advanced desk, and you have the budget, buy something suitable for that show, and leave the six way for its usual role.

[ianknight]

1 hour ago, sandall said:

Assuming the "Sixer" is merely a rebadge of the Strand version, this appears to be a generic Chinese offering, which appeared with different names, knobs & ridiculously cheap prices, at the same time as the Strand one, so may well be available to hire or on the usual auction site. Probably safer to leave the Sixer where it is.

Can I just add - from the benefit of experience....

"Audition" i.e. try out one of these cheap 6 channel slider DMX boards - they might not work correctly with your existing kit. Sometimes it's true that they output DMX but not the DMX that your kit is expecting. Please... don't start with the DMX is DMX thing - it's not regarded as a "standard" by some chinese manufacturers

I've encountered this with the newer Transcension 6 way desks - they work nicely with Transcension dimmers but not Zero88 or Strand DMX dimmers. Eventually Keith @ Zero88 and myself suspected there was oddness with the mark/space ratio - Prolight were never overly concerned, it worked with their other products :P  Cheap DMX buffers didn't work either as they didn't try to reshape the waveform as some more expensive units do.

The very first Transcension SDC 6 (which was designed & built by Botex) worked fine as did the Strand Sixer which came out of the Botex factory after Philips had bought it - the replacement design (from the guy who sold the Botex factory to Philips) didn't work.

You can still find the "original" SDC6 around (it's got a brown case with orange legending) and there are probably Sixers still in stock around the place too - if you decide to buy then stick out for one of those & save yourself the pain.

[ImagineerTom]

If you just need something that when turned on spits out a fixed DMX value then surely this is the sort of thing a microprocessor (arduino, raspberry pi, etc) would be perfect for - I know there are a lot of DMX libraries and pre-existing programs out there for DMX control requirements.

[dje]

Supplied a few of these and I think what you're asking for is exactly what it does: https://prolight.co.uk/product/flex31

Quote

A user friendly controller with back box, perfect for mood creation in hotels, bars and venues. Suitable for DMX control over installed fixtures such as LED flexible tape, architectural or basic stage lighting. Designed for use with RGB or RGBW fixtures, fixtures, the FLEXICON can be configured during installation via a simple dipswitch for either three or four channel DMX operation. The FLEXICON features a tri-colour LED indicator to mimic the output colour, allowing the user to see the effect directly from the wall plate. It is also suitable for installation into single gang, electrical back boxes for convenient integration.

 

[Don Allen]

I had a look and there are 16 channel scanner desks on you auction site that would be easier than making something. I have used these for architectural lighting but they don't output DMX at power on, so they may be more appropriate for your show ? https://www.ebay.co.uk/b/Lighting-Desk/30889/bn_7023420122 

 

[xllx]

5 hours ago, ianknight said:

Eventually Keith @ Zero88 and myself suspected there was oddness with the mark/space ratio

I have a six way desk, can't remember the brand, but it is one of the cheap clones. It doesn't seem to output channel 1 correctly, depending on what it is controlling 2-6 can work fine, but often 1 just does nothing.

I use it for one particular show where we put some RGB pars on stands, with a DMX lead hanging down. Walk over with the battery powered desk, set a look, unplug and walk to the next stand and repaeat. We have just got used to setting all the pars to address 2.

I seem to remember a thread on here a couple of years ago about this subject of non standard DMX output, but my search skills aren't up to it, especially having to wait 2 weeks between searches 🙂

 

[richardash1981]

Thank you for all the ideas - several things I hadn't seen in there.

The FLEXICON DMX Controller would be ideal if it could be programmed a little more flexibly - unfortunately my four PWM dimmer channels are white front, white back, white sides and red back, so I probably can't get the combination of channel values I want from color plus dimmer controls! Easter is barely more complex but does need 6 channels (RGB LED PARs plus a tungsten dimmer).

The Swisson XRC-200 is certainly capable (the documentation is a world away from the Botek!), as is the cost if bought, but certainly an option.

I was originally thinking along the microcontroller route, but with setup on the 19th I'm running out of time to get a new board and learn to make it do the correct thing (you can't get most Raspberry Pi boards at the moment, which is the nearest thing I have actually used before). I can see that there are libraries for the (available) Raspberry Pi Pico, but I'm worried about the learning timescale.

The Sixer controller I have is indeed the Strand one re-badged (with a small mod inside so it can take power via the spare pins in the DMX cable). It's useful to know that all of these devices are not the same. It's also triggered the thought that I might know where I could borrow a (number of years old) Transcension SDC 6 from for the period, which might be the way to avoid doing anything else in a rush this year (if it works, which will need to be tried!).

I had noticed the bunch of disco-market "scanner" desks, but I'm still none the wiser how they work (even after trying to find a manual for a similar looking one). 8 channels in manual mode would be OK (a master is really needed however), and could live with having to push a button to get there, but I can't see how you get into manual mode!

On the "get something else for the show" route, I'm seeing a couple of Light Processor Q series desks available. I've never met one before, but they seem to be basic two-preset desks with DMX out (and various fancy stuff I hope not to have to use!). Anyone got any opinions?

[pscandrett]

20 minutes ago, richardash1981 said:

On the "get something else for the show" route, I'm seeing a couple of Light Processor Q series desks available. I've never met one before, but they seem to be basic two-preset desks with DMX out (and various fancy stuff I hope not to have to use!). Anyone got any opinions?

In my experience Light Processor kit has generally been pretty solid and reliable; they probably 'do' DMX properly. I think they're now one of the brands of the company that also bought Zero88 (I've lost track of who it is now? Cooper Controls? Genlyte? Strand? Phillips? Anyway...) and I think much of their stuff is made in the same places as those other brands so there's some heritage to that equipment too. Certainly I've used Light Processor dimmers and DMX distros without much hassle. </single data point>

[DrV]

If you get a DMX shield and an Arduino, and you really only want 6 channels, and you know what levels you want, it's about 10 lines of code to make something which has the levels hard coded into the program. If you want it to learn the levels from a DMX input it's a few more but not more than about 20-30. 

Edit to add:

Actually it's EXACTLY 10 lines of code if you don't count the comment line!!

#include <DMXSerial.h>
// Put the DMX levels for channels 1 - 6 (0-255) in this array. These are just examples
const char levels[] = {101, 202, 13, 255, 100, 128};
void setup() {
  DMXSerial.init(DMXController);
  for (int x = 1; x < sizeof(levels) + 1; x++) {
    DMXSerial.write(x, levels[x]);
  }
}
void loop() {
}

 

Edited March 6, 2022 by DrV

[xllx]

3 hours ago, richardash1981 said:

On the "get something else for the show" route, I'm seeing a couple of Light Processor Q series desks available. I've never met one before, but they seem to be basic two-preset desks with DMX out (and various fancy stuff I hope not to have to use!). Anyone got any opinions?

Light Processor were lovely little desks back in the day. I think I still have a couple in the pile of "to be sorted one day" kit. Do remember they are probably 30 years old now, and mine at least suffered from dodgy faders, which can make them flicker a bit during fades. You could easily find yourself with the same problem if you buy one on ebay. If you have time to give the faders a good clean and maybe replace one or two then go for it!

 

[TomHoward]

Are the 6 DMX levels the same every year? Apologies for a basic question but could it just be done via 0-10V inputs on the dimmer if there are any and some resistors, or even more basic if they're all 100% just power the strip directly?