Tannoy message/mic/zone over ip.

[cedd]

Hi All

At the day job we have a 100V tannoy system. Multiple amplifiers feeding multiple zones (at least 10). The system is all analogue.

 

We have a desk mic with PTT and then multiple zone enable toggle switches (so the user can select which zones they want to address). We also have multiple push buttons to play pre recorded messages in to those zones (from a Plena Message Manager). It's my understanding that the mic and message manager audio are combined and distributed to all the amplifiers, then the relevant amplifiers are enabled using the toggle switches.

 

We've had a request to move this mic to the other side of the building (actually a different building entirely). I think this is going to prohibit retaining the analogue cabling and simply extending it - it's a fair way.

 

I'm therefore on the hunt for an ip based system that will do the above.

The ideal setup would have a desk mic with zone select switches and message playback switches. At the rack end we'd have a box with an audio output and relay contacts.

 

I'm aware of the TOA IP-3000 series, which does most of what I want, but I'd have to handle the pre recorded message playback separately. I'd prefer a single box, or something Dante esque where I could at least stream the recorded messages to the box from a PC or other device.

 

 

What's out there? Either that'll achieve some or all of what I need. Google Fu isn't bringing me much joy, but I don't really know what to search for!

 

Edit - I'm also aware of QSC Q-SYS. It's attractive but I think the budget is going to prevent involving somebody who can configure it. We have links with a firm who could supply this, but I've wasted their time an awful lot with projects involving this system that never happened - I don't want to do that to them again until I have a bit more info and understand the budget. If there's a "buy this box and set it up yourself" solution then it might be more likely to get budgetary approval just at the minute.

Edited February 8, 2021 by cedd

[J Pearce]

We have QSys. It does everything from paging to backstage relay to handling our final distribution to each PA system (gathering inputs from Creston, Dante, and AES from the SSL desks along the way). Fantastically powerful, fantastically complex. Certainly not a set it up yourself 'plug n play' type system, unless you have time and budget to train yourself up (I did the first stages of training then decided it was easier to pay someone else to do it).

[strand600X]

+1 for the QSC. We have one as well it also handles the cue lights and the stage camera feeds.

It's so good we have it in two venues now.

B

[J Pearce]

I forgot ours does video too (alongside our broadcast rig on the Tricaster). It does video and audio relay across 4 venues and multiple output spaces. I have to say it's one of those bits of kit we don't notice day to day, because it sits there doing what it does with very little interaction from us.

[strand600X]

Ours are the same very little interaction needed.

Every now and again I reboot it as ours have PC's attached that update themselves.

[Bryson]

I like the QSC too and specify it frequently, (there's a 110f in my office right now routing my computer audio!) but there are other manufacturers (Biamp, Symetrix, maybe even Rane) who make similar products that are a bit cheaper - but finding an experienced / qualified programmer will be more challenging.

 

The QSC software isn't super hard to use, especially if your use case is reasonably simple. And they have much smaller, more cost effective boxes now than were available last year (look up the Core Nano and Core 8 Flex). I still think that's your best bet.

[cedd]

Ok, QSYS might still be a contender then. It seems a pretty straightforward scenario - one audio output, 8 or so toggling relay outputs for zones, and message playback.

This building may not be standing in 2 years time, so anything spent is very short term. We have zero income due to Covid, but need to move this thing quickly - hence the need for a quick ish and cheap solution.

 

I've been musing about this today and I have an alternative solution that may just do the job. It isn't pretty, but it's cheap and interfaces with that we have already. Essentially I need to activate a number of relays remotely - some to do zoning, some to play back messages (closing contacts on the message manager). I then need a mic input to the system with a push to talk. The audio could be a pair of relatively cheap Dante or similar boxes, just streaming audio to each other. Essentially I want mic in at one end, line out at the other. Network inbetween. Everything else could be as simple as a pair of Arduino's with switches in to one and relays out of the other. It's as simple as that.

[pstewart]

Would an Extron DMP 64 Plus do the job? Danté interface, onboard audio players, and GPIO that could control your amp channels.

 

Also beware Danté won't cross subnets without Danté Domain Manager.

[Bryson]

Secondhand DMP64s show up on eBay a fair bit, very cheap. Brand new they're not a million miles off the QSC Nano, though.

 

(Boy, do Extron need an Industrial Designer, Stat... ;) )

[Jevans]

Just to throw in another alternative - Yamaha make the MRX-7, which is more of a configurable audio DSP than the more general purpose Q-Sys boxes. More Dante native than the Q-Sys but slightly less general control options - has GPIO, an Ethernet based API etc. but is a bit more limited in what you can do with it.

 

There's also the MTX-3 and MTX-5 in the same range which are fixed configuration rather than designable DSP, and are fairly standard paging/bakground music type processors.

[pstewart]

Secondhand DMP64s show up on eBay a fair bit, very cheap. Brand new they're not a million miles off the QSC Nano, though.

 

 

They won't be the plus model though, and don't have the playback or Danté.

[cedd]

Thank You everybody. Lots of leads to follow up there.

 

I have another option I've discovered to follow up too - an ip relay board that'll do 24 outputs and hosts a web page with clickable buttons to activate - that'd give an on screen set of controls on their pc. I can then deal with the mic audio separately, and use one of the buttons for push to talk. I'm experimenting later today with if I can get line level balanced audio successfully over the distance - if so then we have some telephone cabling between the buildings that might suffice. I know the signal SHOULD travel that far. All just depends on noise now.

 

Chris

[sunray]

What sort of distance are you talking about and what wires exist between the bit you need to move and the rest of the system? It may simply be a few runs of cat3/4/5 if not enough existing telephone pairs exist. I've quite often run multiple audio signals over long distances 900m on one regular job.using such cable.

Hi All

At the day job we have a 100V tannoy system. Multiple amplifiers feeding multiple zones (at least 10). The system is all analogue.

 

We have a desk mic with PTT and then multiple zone enable toggle switches (so the user can select which zones they want to address). We also have multiple push buttons to play pre recorded messages in to those zones (from a Plena Message Manager). It's my understanding that the mic and message manager audio are combined and distributed to all the amplifiers, then the relevant amplifiers are enabled using the toggle switches.

 

We've had a request to move this mic to the other side of the building (actually a different building entirely). I think this is going to prohibit retaining the analogue cabling and simply extending it - it's a fair way.

 

I'm therefore on the hunt for an ip based system that will do the above.

The ideal setup would have a desk mic with zone select switches and message playback switches. At the rack end we'd have a box with an audio output and relay contacts.

 

I'm aware of the TOA IP-3000 series, which does most of what I want, but I'd have to handle the pre recorded message playback separately. I'd prefer a single box, or something Dante esque where I could at least stream the recorded messages to the box from a PC or other device.

 

 

What's out there? Either that'll achieve some or all of what I need. Google Fu isn't bringing me much joy, but I don't really know what to search for!

 

Edit - I'm also aware of QSC Q-SYS. It's attractive but I think the budget is going to prevent involving somebody who can configure it. We have links with a firm who could supply this, but I've wasted their time an awful lot with projects involving this system that never happened - I don't want to do that to them again until I have a bit more info and understand the budget. If there's a "buy this box and set it up yourself" solution then it might be more likely to get budgetary approval just at the minute.