Flying 'wonky that becomes level' scenery

[Damian Jay]

Hello all.

Firstly apologies for the rather lame topic title. I didn't know how to explain myself in a short title.

 

I'm after a little bit of knowledge and 'how to' please.

 

I'll use Phantom of the Opera as my example as I suspect most members are familiar with the show in some way or another.

 

I'm trying to recreate an effect I saw on a YouTube video (a fair few years ago now, and I have not managed to track down the video)

 

The effect, and it's brilliantly executed during Phantom, is that of drapes hanging at odd angles, as though one or more of the fly lines have snapped. the drapes hang with one end on the stage and the other up in the air as it's still attached to the fly lines.

When these drapes are flown out the effect is of the drapes righting themselves and hanging correctly in their horizontal position.

From what I remember the real fly bay is masked and a false fly bar is visible to the audience, somehow righting itself as the two are flown

 

How would I achieve this effect please? And, a real longshot here, does anyone know of the YouTube video I'm on about? I think the video was of a production in a school or college and the SM was explaining how they created the effect.

 

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

Damo

[sunray]

Hello all.

Firstly apologies for the rather lame topic title. I didn't know how to explain myself in a short title.

 

I'm after a little bit of knowledge and 'how to' please.

 

I'll use Phantom of the Opera as my example as I suspect most members are familiar with the show in some way or another.

 

I'm trying to recreate an effect I saw on a YouTube video (a fair few years ago now, and I have not managed to track down the video)

 

The effect, and it's brilliantly executed during Phantom, is that of drapes hanging at odd angles, as though one or more of the fly lines have snapped. the drapes hang with one end on the stage and the other up in the air as it's still attached to the fly lines.

When these drapes are flown out the effect is of the drapes righting themselves and hanging correctly in their horizontal position.

From what I remember the real fly bay is masked and a false fly bar is visible to the audience, somehow righting itself as the two are flown

 

How would I achieve this effect please? And, a real longshot here, does anyone know of the YouTube video I'm on about? I think the video was of a production in a school or college and the SM was explaining how they created the effect.

 

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

Damo

 

It's very easy if you have a lot of height available.Fly the additional bar level from the flybar

at one end of the additional bar, add an additional line to a fixed point in the tower.

I'll try to invent some figures:

length of drapes and height of border 4m

distance between fly and additional bar 4m

required lift 8m

this means the additional bar can be flown in to floor level flown in to floor level with the whole of the drape on the floor.

 

fixed line stops one end of additional bar dropping lower than 4m above stage.

 

Edited February 5, 2020 by sunray

[Damian Jay]

Sunray .... Thank you :-)

No wonder my doodles and thoughts were not working. I was waaaaay over complicating things.

[sunray]

Sunray .... Thank you :-)

No wonder my doodles and thoughts were not working. I was waaaaay over complicating things.

And I bet you kept adding more rather than starting again.

I find it far too easy to start with a thought and get too blinkered to see an alternative.

Hope it goes well.

[Ramps]

I seem to remember that the touring version had some complicated "bomb" weight system for leveling the bar as it went out. It was a while ago so I could be wrong.

[Damian Jay]

Hi Ramps, I'm not familiar with the 'Bomb' weight system. Could you elaborate or guide me to some more info please.

Typing into Google 'Bomb weight systems' came up with various websites for calculating weights of bombs ... I'm sure I've raised a few red flags with my searches ** laughs out loud **

[Ramps]

Hi, yes I can see that would lead to some interesting articles, it is basically like a second counter weight that was used to help the false bar sit at an angle buy meant you didn't have to alter the cradle weight or use an "uncle buddy".As I say it was nearly 25 years ago and if I remember right it never really worked properly. It was always getting tangled due to the weight spinning .

[mac.calder]

Be careful in a counterweight situation tying a load off part of a load to the grid. You are going to end up cradle heavy - in fact you can end up EXTREMELY cradle heavy very quickly if it is a heavy bunch of drapes - especially if you are also letting some pool onto the ground. Using 580gsm IFR wool (which is on the lighter side IMO), an 18m x 8m drape with 50% fullness comes in at around 125kg - add in your pipe weight - you are looking at another 50-100kg and maybe 15kg in rigging.... We are not talking nothing loads here.

 

You can also end up with some swing on load as well - basic trigonometry there. It is all very doable - but you need to be aware of how your load is shifting. On a powered system you can drop literally all the weight off the bar and do a really controlled re-build - on a counterweight system... be very careful.

Edited February 12, 2020 by mac.calder

[sunray]

Be careful in a counterweight situation tying a load off part of a load to the grid. You are going to end up cradle heavy - in fact you can end up EXTREMELY cradle heavy very quickly if it is a heavy bunch of drapes - especially if you are also letting some pool onto the ground. Using 580gsm IFR wool (which is on the lighter side IMO), an 18m x 8m drape with 50% fullness comes in at around 125kg - add in your pipe weight - you are looking at another 50-100kg and maybe 15kg in rigging.... We are not talking nothing loads here.

 

You can also end up with some swing on load as well - basic trigonometry there. It is all very doable - but you need to be aware of how your load is shifting. On a powered system you can drop literally all the weight off the bar and do a really controlled re-build - on a counterweight system... be very careful.

Thanks for pointing out the silly error in my suggestion, it did feel so easy but in my defence it will work on a winched system.

 

If I understant this correctly the whole bar would stop dropping in at the point the remainder of the bar load and cradle balance. Which presumably is about the point the fixed line starts taking weight.

Edited February 12, 2020 by sunray

[ImagineerTom]

...and do double check the rated strengths of the wire rope you are using for the dead AND on the flown bar - lots of effort is put in to keeping the weight evenly spread across multiple lines so that thinner ropes can be used. Once you start flying a bar at an angle the weight distribution across each of the pick-up points (and your new dead) changes dramatically - It wouldn't be difficult for you to end up with 80% of the weight being carried on a single wire once the bar gets to a jaunty angle and as you raise/lower it the load on each of the wires will change quite dramatically and in a way that the brackets / connectors might not have been designed to take.

[Damian Jay]

Wow, so much to think of. I think I'm going to take the really easy option, and think of a different staging idea completely. Math is not my strong point so for me, It's better to be safe than sorry.

Thank you all so much for your assistance with this. It's greatly appreciated.

Have a great weekend all :-)

[sunray]

Wow, so much to think of. I think I'm going to take the really easy option, and think of a different staging idea completely. Math is not my strong point so for me, It's better to be safe than sorry.

Thank you all so much for your assistance with this. It's greatly appreciated.

Have a great weekend all :-)

It's looking to me like it may be easier to rig a triangular drape.

[Damian Jay]

It's looking to me like it may be easier to rig a triangular drape.

Sunray - That's part of what I've opted to do on one of the bars. The other bar will have a heavily torn / ripped muslin drape on it.