Sound advice needed

[Heptagon]

Forgive the bad pun.

 

I have used QLab, and found it very good, but others want to use a windows-based system.

 

QLab have a very useful document "A Computer Prepares" - how to get the machine into a state where it won't download software and is less likely to lock up as the cue approaches.

 

We are plagued with people wanting to use their own computer and do it "their way" - which usually means double clicking in explorer when the cue arises.

 

(We are an amateur group that perform drama in hired premises, that do not provide a sound source but do provide a mixer, amp and speakers).

 

Should we:

 

Tell our (volunteer) operators NO you will use the company's computer and do it our way?

 

Give them the software to operate, and instructions on how to prepare their machine?

 

Let them go, and hope it works?

 

Any other ideas?

 

What is the done thing?

[jmdh]

Personally I would always want to make sure that any show I had a stake in was using a proper cuing system such as QLab - on a properly prepared dedicated show machine - for the obvious reliability reasons. This is pretty well established as a convention in our theatre group - either our Mac mini (which we were fortunate to be able to invest in together with a decent USB audio interface and flight case) or a venue system. That said, the person who is appointed the sound (or projection) design doesn't always do the QLab programming, so it sometimes falls on me...

 

 

 

If a personally-owned machine can be dedicated to the task for the week of the show, set out properly (I love that preparation doc of QLab's) and left at the venue (much like the discipline of the Prompt Copy never leaving the venue during show week) with the operation team having all the info they need to get up and running each day - then the ownership per se doesn't matter so much, but in practice it's so much easier to have a machine not owned by an individual and not used for anything else. In our case members are offered the chance to borrow it in advance for design work, and I quite often lend out an old Macbook Air for the same purpose which helps and is rather more portable.

 

I suspect your challenge will be in persuading people that it's worthwhile and not an annoying arbitrary rule given the history which you've described. How has the ad hoc double clicking on files thing worked out in practice? Does it result in frequent mis-cues or other issues (volume?) for example?

 

One thing you could do would be to run a class on designing with QLab - it's easy to do if you can rent your rehearsal venue for a couple of hours and have access to a Mac, a projector and a small PA. If you can take people through the possibilities (not just more reliable cueing, but more powerful dynamic sound designs), perhaps it will be easier to get people on board? (Hmm, it's probably time I did another one of those myself...)

 

The other aspect is windows vs mac. It sounds like you have a company Mac computer which implies that you have already decided on that as the official platform, much as we have - but if using Windows is needed - there are QLab equivalents on Windows out there. I know very little about them, and I know about none that have commanded as much attention as QLab, particularly in the small-scale market - but a little bit of research there might yield some other possibilities.

[Malcolm Gordon]

In the Windows world there are many on this forum that would nominate SCS (Show Computer Systems) as the pre-eminent software. It’s written in your city (Brisbane) too.

[paulears]

Why is "people wanting to use their own computer" a problem. In all the amateur companies I've worked with, it's common for the enthusiasts to bring in and use their own software, and even when I am surprised by what it is, if it does the job - why is this a problem. Using unfamiliar equipment, especially computers and software is more of a reliability problem than using your own. There are so many iPad apps too that can do playback perfectly well.

 

To be very honest, you often see pro shows hiring in expensive, sophisticated kit and then they give it to a DSM who has never used a Mac in their lives and then they wonder why it goes wrong. I remember a show with video cues, lots of them, all coming off a MacBook Pro with a tracking backup on another MacBook - switchers, scalers and other gizmos in a rack, and when he hit go accidentally twice, he didn't know how to put it right. Loads of windows capable people cannot fathom how Macs work, and vice versa. With amateurs, why make it worse by insisting on a company machine they may simply not be comfy with? Surely the person working it should be effective. The notion of going on a course to use an unfamiliar machine - perhaps one they cannot customise to their own needs will stall. In the pro world you often get given kit you hate and would not have chosen yourself. In the amateur world I see no point upsetting people who do it for fun. If their system is rubbish and unreliable, then step in, but if theirs is effective - leave them alone. It applies to lighting too. If somebody has their own lighting control, and they a re your only lighting person, then even if a venue has a really good but different lighting desk, why not let the operator use the one they like? Why do amateur companies need these layers of control? It happens with radio mics too - the amateur company could ask the sound op what s/he would like and get it, but often somebody goes to a different supplier to get a better deal and discovers that they get kit that uses 9v batteries, and the stock of AA's they bought somewhere else don't fit! The 'technical committee' made a decision, then it's somebody else's problem.

 

 

This also seems the problem in the well off churches - who do the same things with their technical facilities.

[jmdh]

I agree with you up to a a point Paul - but I assume the OP was seeing some real show issues with random machines coming in, and if people a literally just double clicking on files in explorer, I'm not surprised.

 

 

In my group one of our core missions is to educate - and if I see people doing things like the OP described then yes, I'm going to intervene. If on the other hand someone comes in with some tool that they know and are committed to the whole run I'm not saying they shouldn't be able to use it (this happened recently with someone bringing along MagicQ on a laptop for example). But the scenario where someone rocks up with a system that's not fit for purpose and saying nothing about it doesn't help the show, and it doesn't help the growth of the individuals.

 

And even if you have someone using a perfectly good system that's unfamiliar to everyone else, you have to consider what happens when they are suddenly taken ill (or, common for us, that the operation runs on a rota). For that reason, standardising on tools that well known by multiple people (and having a training programme, whether dedicated or on-the-job, to ensure that), makes a lot of sense.

[Jivemaster]

It's amdram, there are as many answers as there are people -all different.

If there is a company computer then who stores it? Whether it's PC or MAC someone/everyone will need training on the computer with the performance software. If it's a company computer then it can be a clean install with no web or network access to slow it.

If it's personal computers they could be MAC or PC and all the peripherals will need to work equally well with both, and there will be no help available when something crashes.

 

Probably an idea is to have a dedicated playout system on a clean install, AND have several other copies of the software that can be used for training/practise and rehearsal then the finished file transferred to the playout machine before the show period.

[sandall]

In the Windows world there are many on this forum that would nominate SCS (Show Computer Systems) as the pre-eminent software. It's written in your city (Brisbane) too.

I think you are thinking of MultiPlay, which does come from Brisbane, is ideal for the less-technical & is under major revision at the moment. Show Control System is AFAIK UK-based, & is much nearer to QLab, There is also SFX, which has a loyal user-base. If only running a few sound cues then almost anything will do, but if you want to control lighting, projection, camera, etc. then it has to br QLab or CSC.

 

As for a "house" system vs "bring your own" there are good arguments either way. The more complex the show, the more QLab or similar come into their own. My local theatre uses SFX, but has just finished a show with around 2500 QLab cues (& a lot of brought-in AV), which would have been impossible with something like SFX. Horses for courses.

[d_korman]

In the Windows world there are many on this forum that would nominate SCS (Show Computer Systems) as the pre-eminent software. It's written in your city (Brisbane) too.

Show Control System is AFAIK UK-based,

 

No, SCS is in Australia: PO Box 5584, Alexandra Hills, Qld 4161, Australia | ABN 40 219 268 559

 

As far preparing a machine so it doesn't do downloads, updates etc, my RULE #1 is that the machine is never connected to the internet when running a show.

Edited November 17, 2019 by d_korman

[pmiller056]

There is a choice (some good, some poor) of software for most theatre tasks available - in an amateur situation if you dictate what must be used, overriding the user's choice (assuming the user's choice works), then you will lose a hard to replace volunteer/member. What you need to do is ask them to setup the computer in use up to minimise any risks to the show. Outwith show time, ask and help them to explore other software, including what you want them to use.

 

I do use my own computer for a local amateur company's shows. My computer stays in the theatre for show week (if it gets lost or damaged, the lost value to me is just about affordable) so that anyone who needs to can use it for the show. The one I use for shows is not my everyday workhorse and is carefully set up for the show. During show week all irrelevant stuff is turned off, such as wifi, updates, audio/video (depending on intended use) notifications and so on. No passwords are required at start-up, just straight into a locked down user account. Unfortunately many user-provided computers are not set up like this, so there are risks to the show, depending on the (in)competence of the computer provider. We nearly lost one show where the sound op was seriously delayed in unexpectedly slow traffic, we had his laptop and someone who had used it during rehearsals, but no password, the sound op would not respond to his mobile phone (voice or text) because he was driving......

 

 

[Malcolm Gordon]

In the Windows world there are many on this forum that would nominate SCS (Show Computer Systems) as the pre-eminent software. It's written in your city (Brisbane) too.

Show Control System is AFAIK UK-based,

 

No, SCS is in Australia: PO Box 5584, Alexandra Hills, Qld 4161, Australia | ABN 40 219 268 559

For the benefit of anyone reviewing this later, SCS = Show Cue Systems (the perils of predictive text on a phone). Alexandra Hills is 14 miles from the centre of Brisbane.

[Heptagon]

Thank you for the useful replies.

 

No magic solutions - pity. It seems to come down to a question of ensuring quality standards versus coming the heavy.

 

Personally I think we as amateurs should train new operators in as "professional" an approach as possible, but any of the good software offerings seem have a fairly similar look-and-feel, so training in any of the good ones should be an advantage if they go professional (and quite a few of our members do).

 

On further question - is there any sort of advice (similar to the "A Computer Prepares") for Windows machines? I use windows at home myself, but it is forever making noises, popping up windows over what I am doing, and even doing windows swaps for no apparent reason.

 

Has anyone done a "Computer Prepares" for windows?

 

Thanks again

[willjam39]

For Amdram use I go for Multi play as it has good control and is quite easy for people to work. It also has a warning to show when its not the top window or not the computers focus which is quite handy.

[DavePallant]

Forgive the bad pun.

 

I have used QLab, and found it very good, but others want to use a windows-based system.

 

QLab have a very useful document "A Computer Prepares" - how to get the machine into a state where it won't download software and is less likely to lock up as the cue approaches.

 

We are plagued with people wanting to use their own computer and do it "their way" - which usually means double clicking in explorer when the cue arises.

 

(We are an amateur group that perform drama in hired premises, that do not provide a sound source but do provide a mixer, amp and speakers).

 

Should we:

 

Tell our (volunteer) operators NO you will use the company's computer and do it our way?

 

Give them the software to operate, and instructions on how to prepare their machine?

 

Let them go, and hope it works?

 

Any other ideas?

 

What is the done thing?

 

I've been using SCS (Show Cue Systems) on a Windows laptop for several years now. I did start to plan to run a simple amateur show by double clicking a list of mp3 files in Explorer for a show with half a dozen cues simply to save a small amount of money on the SCS licence. Unfortunately Windows is just too slow to load up and play the file for each cue, particularly if they are effects. It was really frustrating even for a few backing tracks. I went back to licencing SCS and loaded the cues into that. I use an i3 laptop as little computing power is needed to run audio and video cues, so it's possible to get a dedicated computer for the purpose relatively cheaply. I licence SCS for a month each time I use it for a show. I would like to think that a volunteer presented with the machine with a professional show software on it would feel a bit more part of the technical world of real theatre production! They should immediately see the positive aspect of cues playing instantly when they hit the space bar (once!).

 

The laptop I use is mine with everything permanently on in the power settings but I have to admit I don't have a separate guest login that can be used by anyone else to run the show if I am not there. Its got me worried now so I am going to create a seperate login for that!

Dave

 

[Heptagon]

Thanks again

 

I am coming to the conclusion that SCS is good value for the power it supplies - I have been trying it out on a free copy, and apart from one problem, it seems ideal.

 

Qlab is great and I have used it, but the cost of the fruit to run it on, and the unfamiliarity of that fruit is a limitation.

[paulears]

I guess it boils down to the organisation. Some have self-contained volunteers, who bring in their own kit and use it, while others provide kit and expect users to bring in just their talent. Some people cannot work in this framework. They have better and more suitable equipment, but cannot use it because of blanket policy, decided for the greater good by a committee. So runs the gamut of amateur theatre.

 

Would you provide a carpenter whith your tools, when he has more appropriate ones, or even just ones he's comfy with.

 

I used SCS for years on a laptop. In one show I had to use what had ben hired in, and that meant Macs and Qlab. This made me buy a macbook for my next laptop and get comfy with Qlab. Not really a choice, but common sense. Using either would be fine now, but over the summer, I put a new PC into a venue for sound duties and had SCS on it - a new install paid for by me. By the end of the summer, sound was coming from the operator's qlab. He was more comfy with it and it meant fewer mistakes. The rarely turned on PC was really a waste of money.