Strand 300 Dimmer Problem

[Kioti]

Hey everyone. I work in a school with an old Strand 300 series console running an ancient version of LightPalette (2.6 I believe....) and ran across this forum while searching for a solution and thought the collective knowledge here might be able to help.

 

We have all of our lights patched in and everything has been working for ages but all of a sudden, dimming doesn't seem to be working. When we move a fader, the patched fixture goes to full. Even when I manually turn on a light through the command line, it still turns on as full intensity. The monitor is showing 1 or 2 % though. I've combed through manual looking for any setting that a student may have changed but can't seem to find anything out of the ordinary. I've also tried unpatching and repatching some of the fuxtures to no avail.

 

Any help or incite into the problem would be greatly appreciated!

[timsabre]

What dimmers do you have and how is the console connected to them?

 

Sounds like the console is working correctly and something has happened at the dimmer end.

Edited October 23, 2019 by timsabre

[Kioti]

What dimmers do you have and how is the console connected to them?

 

Sounds like the console is working correctly and something has happened at the dimmer end.

 

Its a large rack dimmer system with a processor in it. I'm a computer guy and it reminds me of the large server racks. There are removable packs in the rack that are rectangular boxes with what looks like a few breakers on the front. I can't recall the model but on the processor section, there is a small LCD and some simple cursor buttons to set options. I have never touched the dimmer system but it is in a locked room where students are not supposed to have access.

 

The console itself is connect through a cat5 cable. I'm assuming ArtNet protocol, though it does say in the set up that it is linked somehow to DMX channels as well... I'm honestly not very familiar with lighting and the school was left with almost no info on it.

 

EDIT: Quick google search, it looks similar to an C21/EC21 system.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Kioti

[IRW]

What dimmers do you have and how is the console connected to them?

 

Sounds like the console is working correctly and something has happened at the dimmer end.

 

Its a large rack dimmer system with a processor in it. I'm a computer guy and it reminds me of the large server racks. There are removable packs in the rack that are rectangular boxes with what looks like a few breakers on the front. I can't recall the model but on the processor section, there is a small LCD and some simple cursor buttons to set options. I have never touched the dimmer system but it is in a locked room where students are not supposed to have access.

 

The console itself is connect through a cat5 cable. I'm assuming ArtNet protocol, though it does say in the set up that it is linked somehow to DMX channels as well... I'm honestly not very familiar with lighting and the school was left with almost no info on it.

 

EDIT: Quick google search, it looks similar to an C21/EC21 system.

Are you sure about that? The 300 series console is made up of two main elements- the blue face panels, and a black processor box. The facepanels connect to the processor using cat5 cable/RJ45 connectors, so can give the illusion to the unfamiliar eye that it is 'networked', when in fact they use a Can-bus system to talk internally. The black processor box will also have dedicated DMX sockets on the back of it, which may be what is actually being used to talk to your dimmers. None of this however will be what is causing your problem, but may hopefully provide a little more understanding of the system. If the console is indeed 'networked' to the dimmers, it will be outputting Strand's proprietary ip-based 'shownet' protocol, not artnet.

 

I assume from what you've written, this is a problem with all channels, not just one?

Edited October 23, 2019 by IRW

[Kioti]

What dimmers do you have and how is the console connected to them?

 

Sounds like the console is working correctly and something has happened at the dimmer end.

 

Its a large rack dimmer system with a processor in it. I'm a computer guy and it reminds me of the large server racks. There are removable packs in the rack that are rectangular boxes with what looks like a few breakers on the front. I can't recall the model but on the processor section, there is a small LCD and some simple cursor buttons to set options. I have never touched the dimmer system but it is in a locked room where students are not supposed to have access.

 

The console itself is connect through a cat5 cable. I'm assuming ArtNet protocol, though it does say in the set up that it is linked somehow to DMX channels as well... I'm honestly not very familiar with lighting and the school was left with almost no info on it.

 

EDIT: Quick google search, it looks similar to an C21/EC21 system.

Are you sure about that? The 300 series console is made up of two main elements- the blue face panels, and a black processor box. The facepanels connect to the processor using cat5 cable/RJ45 connectors, so can give the illusion to the unfamiliar eye that it is 'networked', when in fact they use a Can-bus system to talk internally. The black processor box will also have dedicated DMX sockets on the back of it, which may be what is actually being used to talk to your dimmers. None of this however will be what is causing your problem, but may hopefully provide a little more understanding of the system. If the console is indeed 'networked' to the dimmers, it will be outputting Strand's proprietary ip-based 'shownet' protocol, not artnet.

 

 

 

I'm honestly not sure how all the dimmers are connected to the processor system. I'm assuming you are correct that there is an internal bus system on the inside. It is in a large rack system in a closet off the stage. The 300 console is connected to an computer upstairs (Pentium 133....) and it has a Cat5 and DMX cable that goes to a wall plate that I'm assuming is run back to rack to tell the processor what dimmers to play with....

 

The rack itself is something like this:

 

I assume from what you've written, this is a problem with all channels, not just one?

 

Yeppers. It is happens with every light. Any movement of the fader = full on on the fixture.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Kioti

[IRW]

What dimmers do you have and how is the console connected to them?

 

Sounds like the console is working correctly and something has happened at the dimmer end.

 

Its a large rack dimmer system with a processor in it. I'm a computer guy and it reminds me of the large server racks. There are removable packs in the rack that are rectangular boxes with what looks like a few breakers on the front. I can't recall the model but on the processor section, there is a small LCD and some simple cursor buttons to set options. I have never touched the dimmer system but it is in a locked room where students are not supposed to have access.

 

The console itself is connect through a cat5 cable. I'm assuming ArtNet protocol, though it does say in the set up that it is linked somehow to DMX channels as well... I'm honestly not very familiar with lighting and the school was left with almost no info on it.

 

EDIT: Quick google search, it looks similar to an C21/EC21 system.

Are you sure about that? The 300 series console is made up of two main elements- the blue face panels, and a black processor box. The facepanels connect to the processor using cat5 cable/RJ45 connectors, so can give the illusion to the unfamiliar eye that it is 'networked', when in fact they use a Can-bus system to talk internally. The black processor box will also have dedicated DMX sockets on the back of it, which may be what is actually being used to talk to your dimmers. None of this however will be what is causing your problem, but may hopefully provide a little more understanding of the system. If the console is indeed 'networked' to the dimmers, it will be outputting Strand's proprietary ip-based 'shownet' protocol, not artnet.

 

 

 

I'm honestly not sure how all the dimmers are connected to the processor system. I'm assuming you are correct that there is an internal bus system on the inside. It is in a large rack system in a closet off the stage. The 300 console is connected to an computer upstairs (Pentium 133....) and it has a Cat5 and DMX cable that goes to a wall plate that I'm assuming is run back to rack to tell the processor what dimmers to play with....

 

 

Not sure you've quite understood what I meant about the console- here's a picture of what those of us who routinely use them would call the 'console':

 

You may have more or less blue panels, but the 'console' is a combination of the black box and blue facepanels. It sounds to me almost like you've got your panels running remotely to the processor? (this isn't neccessarily an incorrect thing, as if I recall correctly, the CANbus is good for up to 90' or so, just rather unusual)

 

 

Here's a picture of the back of the black processor box:

http://psl.on.ca/images/used%20gear/s3005.jpg

If your setup is as I'm imagining, this box is in your room upstairs, and your 'cat5' cable will be plugged from the wall into one of the 'SBus' sockets, and your DMX cable (to dimmers) plugged into one of the DMX sockets?

Edited October 23, 2019 by IRW

[Kioti]

What dimmers do you have and how is the console connected to them?

 

Sounds like the console is working correctly and something has happened at the dimmer end.

 

Its a large rack dimmer system with a processor in it. I'm a computer guy and it reminds me of the large server racks. There are removable packs in the rack that are rectangular boxes with what looks like a few breakers on the front. I can't recall the model but on the processor section, there is a small LCD and some simple cursor buttons to set options. I have never touched the dimmer system but it is in a locked room where students are not supposed to have access.

 

The console itself is connect through a cat5 cable. I'm assuming ArtNet protocol, though it does say in the set up that it is linked somehow to DMX channels as well... I'm honestly not very familiar with lighting and the school was left with almost no info on it.

 

EDIT: Quick google search, it looks similar to an C21/EC21 system.

Are you sure about that? The 300 series console is made up of two main elements- the blue face panels, and a black processor box. The facepanels connect to the processor using cat5 cable/RJ45 connectors, so can give the illusion to the unfamiliar eye that it is 'networked', when in fact they use a Can-bus system to talk internally. The black processor box will also have dedicated DMX sockets on the back of it, which may be what is actually being used to talk to your dimmers. None of this however will be what is causing your problem, but may hopefully provide a little more understanding of the system. If the console is indeed 'networked' to the dimmers, it will be outputting Strand's proprietary ip-based 'shownet' protocol, not artnet.

 

 

 

I'm honestly not sure how all the dimmers are connected to the processor system. I'm assuming you are correct that there is an internal bus system on the inside. It is in a large rack system in a closet off the stage. The 300 console is connected to an computer upstairs (Pentium 133....) and it has a Cat5 and DMX cable that goes to a wall plate that I'm assuming is run back to rack to tell the processor what dimmers to play with....

 

 

Not sure you've quite understood what I meant about the console- here's a picture of what those of us who routinely use them would call the 'console':

 

 

You may have more or less blue panels, but the 'console' is a combination of the black box and blue facepanels. It sounds to me almost like you've got your panels running remotely to the processor? (this isn't neccessarily an incorrect thing, as if I recall correctly, the CANbus is good for up to 90' or so, just rather unusual)

 

 

Here's a picture of the back of the black processor box:

 

If your setup is as I'm imagining, this box is in your room upstairs, and your 'cat5' cable will be plugged from the wall into one of the 'SBus' sockets, and your DMX cable (to dimmers) plugged into one of the DMX sockets?

 

That's what happens when you've got a sound guy trying to learn lighting! You are absolutely correct. Those two pieces are upstairs in our tech booth. The cat5 cable is in the SBus and a DMX cable as well. I know in the console setup page, it states the "network" DMX address are from 19 to 299 and our DMX OUT is 301 to 512. I know our one tech that was out many moons ago stated we had a muxer that was fed from our tech booth and the drama room to use the same processor (the large rack with the dimmers) between the two classrooms. I'm assuming that dimmers 1 through 18 were used for the 6 lights in the drama room (which now has its own console that is pure DMX for only that room). We have a mix of traditional lights and newer DMX lighting so the 301 I know aligns with our LEDs channel 1. Its a very unusual setup I'm sure. To add to the description of the problem, the LED equipment dims perfectly fine but the traditional lighting goes full on.

.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Kioti

[DrV]

A picture of your dimmer racks would help to identify exactly what you've got. You can't post pictures directly to the forum but if you can take one and put it somewhere publicly accessible you can post a link to it. It sounds to me as though you have a demultiplexer (takes DMX digital protocol and outputs a load of analogue voltages, one for each channel) and this has gone sick (lost its internal reference voltage for example). If we can identify which one you have we might be able to advise further.

 

Edit to add: your last sentence backs up the theory that the console is fine.

Edited October 24, 2019 by DrV

[Ynot]

Hmmm...

 

Quick lesson on DMX - each of the 2 DMX 'out' sockets will deliver a FULL universe of 512 channels, so not quite sure where your idea of a 'network DMX' being specific channels is coming from. TBH it's been years since I played with the Strand setups, butt= the principles of DMX haven't changed.

 

It sounds as though you MAY have 2 consoles linked to the processor - one in the main house the other in the other classroom maybe? It MAY have been then that dimmer channels (ie DMX channels connected to dimmers) were assigned to the two rooms exclusively which sounds a little unusual, but I guess maybe not totally impractical in a shared facility.

 

BUT that wouldn't stop a console in either space from accessing all 512 channels of DMX on both universes.

 

Anyhow, the only thing that might affect how the console affects the dimmer operation is perhaps being set as a 'switch' in the patch (I think the Strand protocol allowed that). Try loading a completely new show file with 1 to 1 patching and see if that fixes it.

Otherwise I'd check the settings on the dimmers themselves - I don't recognise the pic you posted but many dimmers do have the facility in setup to have some or all channels set to hard-power instead of dim. That would mean someone else will have gone in and made the change as it's highly unlikely it would happen all on its lonesome.

[Kioti]

Thanks everyone for the help! Really appreciate the info here.

 

It sounds as though you MAY have 2 consoles linked to the processor - one in the main house the other in the other classroom maybe? It MAY have been then that dimmer channels (ie DMX channels connected to dimmers) were assigned to the two rooms exclusively which sounds a little unusual, but I guess maybe not totally impractical in a shared facility.

The Drama room was sharing the system and had a separate console. We had a lot of "cross-talk" issues so they ended up removing it and now have their own pure DMX setup in the room only, independent of the stage. Only console hooked up now is the one upstairs. I am aware of the DMX universes and protocol. The Strand system somehow differentiates between the transitional dimmers over ShowNet and the DMX port via software. When it gets to the processor, it routes it appropriately. When I say the DMX out is set at 301, that is the address that is used to the processor but it changes DMX channel 1 on our LEDs. 302 is mapped to 2 and so on. The other part (19 through 299) maps to our traditional dimmers. Like I said, its a very odd setup to me and very finicky it seems...

I also did try unpatching using the console and repatching a few lights to see if that fixed it but with no luck. You are correct that there is a way to set a fixture as "non-dimmable" and either be on or off. The only issue there as well is that the non-dimmable "on %" is set at 80% so it still shouldn't be coming on.

A picture of your dimmer racks would help to identify exactly what you've got. You can't post pictures directly to the forum but if you can take one and put it somewhere publicly accessible you can post a link to it. It sounds to me as though you have a demultiplexer (takes DMX digital protocol and outputs a load of analogue voltages, one for each channel) and this has gone sick (lost its internal reference voltage for example). If we can identify which one you have we might be able to advise further.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252);"><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252);">Edit to add: your last sentence backs up the theory that the console is fine.

I would love to take a photo of it but I'm not at the school right now. II also don't really have much access to the back of the rack. I'll see what I can dig up tomorrow. They also don't really love me playing with the actual processor itself since, and I quote the one tech they called in, "no one knows how to run this system properly"..... I'm guessing the school will be placing a service call in the near future. Glad to hear the console sounds like its fine and its something in the back room processor settings.

Edited October 24, 2019 by Kioti

[alistermorton]

The dimmers sound similar to our rack which is an SLD96

 

Edit: Just seen the rack picture - not the same.

 

SLD96 looks like this.

 

http://www.theatrecrafts.com/archive/images/7022.jpg

 

Edited October 24, 2019 by alistermorton

[Ynot]

The Strand system somehow differentiates between the transitional dimmers over ShowNet and the DMX port via software. When it gets to the processor, it routes it appropriately. When I say the DMX out is set at 301, that is the address that is used to the processor but it changes DMX channel 1 on our LEDs. 302 is mapped to 2 and so on. The other part (19 through 299) maps to our traditional dimmers.

You may be misunderstanding things (or I'm misunderstanding exactly what you're saying).

Each DMX universe outputs ALL 512 channels of information and sends it to EVERY device that s connected to the universe output. That won't matter whether it's on the XLR5 socket on the processor or sent via Shownet (unless Shownet does something very strange, which I don't believe it does).

Each device - be that dimmer rack or LED lantern - picks up the relevant data from that stream by virtue of the address set on the device.

When you say 'mapped' therefore I must assume your'e referring to the CHANNEL assignment in the patch screen.

So I think it may be relevant for you to differentiate between the two - DMX value being what the dimmers or LEDs are set at and CHANNEL numbers being the numbers you type into the command line to select those fixtures/dimmers once they are patched correctly.

That said, I doubt your LEDs are single channel DMX, so 1 to 301 and 2 to 302 shouldn't work - so maybe there's something else amiss there.

I also did try unpatching using the console and repatching a few lights to see if that fixed it but with no luck. You are correct that there is a way to set a fixture as "non-dimmable" and either be on or off. The only issue there as well is that the non-dimmable "on %" is set at 80% so it still shouldn't be coming on

What I suggested was (after saving your existing show) creating a brand NEW show file with everything then set at default and patching the whole setup as CH1 to DMX1, 2 to 2, 3 to 3 etc. Then (after confirming what your dimmer racks' start address is set to) selecting those channels and trying again.

 

 

 

 

[paulears]

I think Tony's non-dim idea seems most likely - and is as you said, set on the control end - BUT - could somebody have set a similar feature on your dimmers? I don't know them so can't say if they even have this feature.

[Salazar]

The Dimmer Rack in the photo the OP included is a photo of a Strand CD80 Rack which was (is still?) a very common rack in North America. Strand still produces Dimmer Modules and replacement Processors for them. There were a few versions over the years (Reporter, Supervisor, etc.) and were first produced around 1980 (hence the CD80 name). One in a local theatre is still going strong after 25 years or so. They are quite robust but they don't last forever.

 

One source of parts is here: https://www.johnsonsystems.com/strand_cd_2000_3000.htm

 

I think Tony's non-dim idea seems most likely - and is as you said, set on the control end - BUT - could somebody have set a similar feature on your dimmers? I don't know them so can't say if they even have this feature.

Depending on the version, the CD80 Rack Processor (installed in the bottom of the rack, below the dimmer modules) can either recognise which Dimmer Modules in the rack are Non-Dims, or has to be told (it is a setting in the Processor). A local CD80 I use, for the Non-Dim to operate correctly, has to be told through the face panel menu if I move a Non-Dim from one slot to another in the rack.

 

Perhaps someone has been messing with the settings in the rack processor? Or it is on its way out...

Edited October 24, 2019 by Salazar

[Kioti]

 

You may be misunderstanding things (or I'm misunderstanding exactly what you're saying).

Each DMX universe outputs ALL 512 channels of information and sends it to EVERY device that s connected to the universe output. That won't matter whether it's on the XLR5 socket on the processor or sent via Shownet (unless Shownet does something very strange, which I don't believe it does).

Each device - be that dimmer rack or LED lantern - picks up the relevant data from that stream by virtue of the address set on the device.

When you say 'mapped' therefore I must assume your'e referring to the CHANNEL assignment in the patch screen.

So I think it may be relevant for you to differentiate between the two - DMX value being what the dimmers or LEDs are set at and CHANNEL numbers being the numbers you type into the command line to select those fixtures/dimmers once they are patched correctly.

That said, I doubt your LEDs are single channel DMX, so 1 to 301 and 2 to 302 shouldn't work - so maybe there's something else amiss there.

 

Yup. Just a misunderstanding of what we are saying. We are saying the same thing :)

I did try the new show as well and it didn't work. That's when I tried to unpatch everything and repatch a few and had no luck. I'm going to play around with it again tonight to see what I can determine. I'll also take some photos and find the model number, if I can.

 

 

 

 

Just as a follow up to everyone asking about the dimmer rack. It is a C21 processor with thyristor dimmers installed. It looks exactly like the picture I posted above. I looked through the processor's dimmer profiles and settings and everything seems like it is set to the correct dimmer settings and nothing has been changed. I even had to move a bunch of other equipment out of the way just to open the door so I'm assuming no one has touched it either.

Even though it seems like I have ruled out the console, it still may be a console issue. We have a word out to the tech company that services it for us. It is not the first time this has happened but they are very stingy when it comes to sharing what they did to fix things with us. Again because "they are the only ones that know what they are doing".