Registration

[andystone]

We work a lot in the construction industry as part of building new venues and they are implementing a new scheme (check it out at http://www.cscs.uk.com/) where every person working on a site has to carry a card that states their level of expertise (based on training and experience) and also they have to do a short health and safety test to get the card.

 

Seems to me that the theatre industry could do with such a scheme, what do you all think?

 

Andy Stone

Stagetec

[gareth]

I can see the merits of such a scheme - but I'm not sure how easy it would be to implement or enforce. There are many, many technicians who've been working in theatre for years and years with tons of experience, and to suddenly be told that they have to go and take a test of their basic competency and H&S awareness which they have to pass in order to obtain a card which will enable them to continue in their job probably wouldn't go down too well with many of them.

 

Remember the technical theatre NVQs that were the subject of a lot of discussion a few years ago, and were supposed to become the big thing in terms of qualification to work in our industry? How many people actually have one now? Not many, I'll wager ...

[andystone]

Surely technicians would realise the merits of having this, there are still quite a few accidents in theatres and it should be important to them to have some kind of H & S training and some kind of recognition of their experience/training.

 

It really isn't that difficult to implement and the construction scheme is quite cheap.

 

Andy

[NickLee]

You COULD "phase" it in - so anyone who works in theatre and registers for the scheme before, say, 2005 gets a card regardless of any test. But any NEW registrants would have to take a test, so you get an entire workforce registered, and a new generation of qualified applicants slowly rising up so in 15-20 years you'd have a good majority of people in the industry properly qualified under the scheme.

 

--N

[James C]

ABTT use a similar scheme for their bronze & silver award scheme - a card with a dated signature for each module (eg electrical installation 1, PAT testing). I've heard of a company whose staff already carry this sort of thing - Unusual Rigging, I think.

I think as a long-term plan its a sound enough idea, but as Nick points out - it would take 15-20 years before the carrying/displaying of the cards could become mandatory. In 2023, turn up at a crewco job, and they could ask to see your manual handling signature before sending you off to lump steeldeck for 18 hours!

[Rob]

ABTT use a similar scheme for their bronze & silver award scheme - a card with a dated signature for each module (eg electrical installation 1, PAT testing). I've heard of a company whose staff already carry this sort of thing - Unusual Rigging, I think.

 

Might well be wrong, but I work for Unusual and I'm not aware of this.

[James C]

ABTT use a similar scheme for their bronze & silver award scheme - a card with a dated signature for each module (eg electrical installation 1, PAT testing). I've heard of a company whose staff already carry this sort of thing - Unusual Rigging, I think.

 

Might well be wrong, but I work for Unusual and I'm not aware of this.

Given that you work for them, and I'm the one sketchily relaying anecdotal info, I suspect that if anyone's mistaken its me! Can't think who it was if it wasn't Unusual...

[Rob]

Well I only really do stuff at Earls Court, which is a bit detached from the rest of the outfit. B)

[Paul J Need]

All very well Andy however where does this stop: A roofer, a plumber, electrician, stage manager, car mechanic?????? If we all have cards at some point it defeats the object of putting a scheme in place in the first place?

 

Moreover, it may prove to be illegal in terms of the closed shop ... i.e. no card - no work.. and does the production manager ask to see the card everytime a person is engaged on a job?

 

Nice plan - but more red tape, hard to enforce and people will always find a way around it.

[NickLee]

Moreover, it may prove to be illegal in terms of the closed shop ... i.e. no card - no work.. and does the production manager ask to see the card everytime a person is engaged on a job?

Managers are QUITE entitled to ask for proof of a basic qualification and competence in terms of Health and Safety. If that comes in card form - all the better. It could even mean booster courses every, say 5/10 years, to remind people what is good practice.

 

A closed shop would be only allowing people to work if they had a card that has no merit attached. If people are being employed on the qualification that card gives, that's quite legitimate.

 

--N

[Brian]

Managers are QUITE entitled to ask for proof of a basic qualification and competence in terms of Health and Safety

 

I'd probably go are far as saying that managers MUST know if their staff and any freelancers are suitably trained. Without that information it would be very difficult to discharge your HSE obligations.

[andystone]

Some good points, but the problem is that a lot of managers don't ask. It isn't a difficult scheme to implement and it is to everyone's benefit.

 

Problem with this sort of thing is who is going to implement it!

 

Andy

[Chris Higgs]

CSCS has been running since 2001.

There is also Passport to Safety and at least 2 other similar schemes.

 

It is the employers duty under the HSaWa to ensure that training is given where risks exist to the safety of those in his employment.

 

The idea of 'grandfather rights' for experienced people is all well and good, but as we decided with rigging training, if one is to have a certification scheme, everyone must be subject to the same criteria or it has no credibility amongst those it could benefit most.

If you have been doing the job for so long, it should not be difficult and often desirable to obtain. If everyone working for you has up to date training and 'the boss' doesn't, how does that look?

 

Once the first 'generation' exists, managements will be obliged to recognise best practice, which is what it represents.

If managers are not currently asking for proof of training or providing training to fill the skill gap between what the employee has and what is required in order to work safely, they may be in breach of the 'Management' Regulations 1999.

 

Just a thought...............

[Stewart Newlands]

Note Part P Building Regulations will come into force soon then any instalation will have to be tested by a qualified person or NO building regs.

 

Any tec not qualified and registered under the UK electrotechnical qualifications rules will be in trouble.

 

Please also note that as from APRIL 2004 the colour or installed three phase cables can be changed (it all changes in 2006 for new instalations).

 

www.iee.oug.uk

www.niceice.org.uk

www.eca.co.uk

 

Proposals for new safety requirements for electrical installation work in dwellings:

http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/groups/odp....hcst?n=173&l=2

 

From eca:

 

The Government has published its proposals for addressing the safety of fixed electrical installations in buildings. These proposals are the culmination of years of lobbying by the ECA and other industry bodies for the better regulation of the electrical installation industry.

 

Almost from its inception, ECA has argued for the statutory support of the IEE Wiring Regulations (BS 7671) and the requirement that electrical installation work should be carried out by competent electrical installers. The consultation package issued today by the Building Regulations Division of the DTLR envisages: -

 

· Bringing electrical safety within the scope of the Building Regulations;

· Recognising BS 7671 as providing a basis for meeting the new requirements concerning electrical safety;

· Enabling competent organisations to self-certify their compliance with the new requirements.

 

The consultation package acknowledges the recently accredited Electrotechnical Assessment Scheme (EAS) as a related development that is necessary in order to provide a system for delivering "competent electrical contractors" in time for the new regulations.

 

 

To read the DTLR press release regarding the Building Regulations consultation paper, click here

 

Stuart Burchell Head of ECA External affairs has produced the first edition of a document entitled position statements. The first edition briefly explains the ECA's views and opinions on the proposed building regulations. Please select the link below to view the Building Regulation Position Statement.

[techwsussex]

Certainly some other industries implement this kind of thing. Usually because they deal with more danger than us. Before you disagree, read my example.

 

I have a friend who works as an installation technician for Conoco, the second largest refiner of oil in the uk. Before any worker is allowed on site, their 'Safety Passport' is checked. This passport starts with a day-long course in H&S for the oil industry and access to different parts of the site requires different levels of endorsement, all of which will have been gained after 3 years training (Which leaves the sucessful trainee with NVQ3 in the appropriate engineering area, an HNC in H&S and many smaller qualifications in various bits and pieces) all qualifications are noted on the safety passport.

 

I said about a higher level of danger. Even if a mistake in the largest venue causes the deaths of everyone inside, a maximum of about 15-20000 people have died, whereas a mistake on an oil refinery can result in the deaths of everyone within a 20 mile radius. Definately a higher danger.

 

The implementation of such a scheme is a good idea but could stop people learning as well, who here learnt counterweight flying on a course?

 

Owen J