Many rooms

[deranged-angel]

Hi All,

I'm going to be designing for a show soon but I'm not sure of the best way to go about it. I have an idea but thought I'd throw it open to you guys to see if you can think of a more practical way.

So, here's the situation:

 

There will be a performance in a large Building in Wigan that has many rooms and the audience will move from room to room to see different short performances. These will run consecutively; there will be no break only for the audience to move in between each performance.

 

I have to find a way of lighting each room-the lighting will change throughout each performance but only very basic, there will not be many cues.

 

The equipment I have is as follows:

 

Tempus Manual Desk

2x pulsar Minipaks

8x demi pars

6x fresnels

 

I also have a budget of around £300 so for one day I should be able to get something with this!!!

 

There will be approx 5 rooms they will use and I want to try to keep the amount of cabling down as it is a historic building and I dont think they'll really appreciate masses of cabling gaffa'd down.

 

Here is my thought:

Buy a few of those wireless cameras linked up to a monitor on a main desk somewhere that reduces the amount of cabling. Stick on a switch so that I can flick between each camera when I need to (my boyfriend is a genius with this sort of stuff and he's said he'll sort one for me) then just put the camera's in a prime viewing place in each room and control it from one desk.

 

The minipaks will be pretty useful for this project as it means I don't have millions of metres of cable running back to a dimmer rack. they just have a 13amp plug on them then the DMX cable going back to the board. I'll have to watch the amount of lanterns I use as the board is only 12 channel ( I think).

 

anyway, any other thoughts would be very useful or anything you might suggest to enhance this idea of mine :(

 

Thanks

Em

x

[Bryson]

Excessively complicated and prone to failure. I've done something very similar, and we cut the lighting changes to the absolute bare minimum, put in simple local controls and put a n operator on each room. Much, much simpler.

[Tomo]

My first instinct is that you're going to be very tight for dimmable channels.

 

Have you figured out what lighting each room will require? I'd guess that a minimum is 3 fixtures, but depending on the scene you may be able to use less by going for a 'harsh' / 'stark' look with deep shadows.

 

Are your Minipacks the 3 or 4 channel version?

 

I'd guess that you are going to need to hire additional dimmers - maybe Alphapacks as I don't think Pulsar kit is easily hireable.

 

£300 is going to be pretty tight though, but that's half the fun...

[gareth]

I'm with Bryson on this - keep it simple, limit the potential for f*ck-up. A dimmer pack (or two, if you really need more channels and have power available) in each room, with simple local manual control. If you only need very basic lighting changes, that's all you'll need. Your stated hire budget should be sufficient for a day's hire of enough kit to allow you a few local dimmers, some lanterns and some stands in each room.

 

If you really must go down the route of central control from a memory console, get yourself a DMX splitter and send a data feed to each room's dimmers. Make sure the splitter is opto-isolated if you go down this route, though, to minimise potential problems with the console possibly being on a different earth to some of the dimmers. Run a set of cans into each room, and have an assistant giving you feedback from the room to assure you that everything is working correctly and calling any cues that might be required to tie in with the action.

 

Whatever you do, keep it simple.

[jfitzpat]

I've actually run into something sort of like this a couple of times. There was a show where the audience decided which character to follow through a rambling old building, and multiple theatres in a pavillion at the world expo in Vancouver.

 

In both those cases, there was concurrent activity in multiple rooms. It is not clear to me from your post if this is going to be the case for you or not. Regardless, I'd have to agree with the posts above - simple is your friend.

 

In the 'follow the actor' situation above, I solved a lot of logistic problems by putting control of the cues into the hands of the actors themselves. Just a few cues, triggered by regular wall switches, some discretely hidden switches, and a few props (ex. lifting an old phone handset triggering a special).

 

Good Luck,

-jjf

[SceneMaster]

triggered by regular wall switches, some discretely hidden switches, and a few props (ex. lifting an old phone handset triggering a special).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

A props triggered cue by using discrete switches sounds a bit more than simple. :( Yes easily done but not as simple as an operator with local controlled dimmers ect. I would go down the alpha pack route either use the local control or a small 6ch desk (when you need more than 3ch and use two packs) with an operator at each or yourself following the action around. You can have a preset state in each room ready for the actors/audience to walk into giving you time to get there and put the first cue state up. Just and idea. :unsure:

[deranged-angel]

Hmmm...I think I might go with the simple equipment in each room-just to stop things from going wrong!!

There's only going to be me there-I dont have any assistants so I need the best method for one person to manage alone.

 

The audience will move in a laid out order-they won't just choose the room they want to go in. There will be an actor taking them around the hall and to the specific rooms.

 

The Minipaks are the 3 channel dimmers but a few Grelcoes and I can pair up the lanterns giving me plenty. Some of the scenes will be going for harsh looks-a lot of it will be very stylised material. they are also school kids so they will be going for this 'different' look! I'd rather use the minipaks because a) we have them available for free and b) the amount of cabling is seriously reduced with them. I like the minipaks-they're a nice piece of kit for this sort of stuff.

 

I think this is going to work best-I wanted to get away with having to hire lots of equipment-boards etc but manual boards should be pretty cheap and if it makes my life easier then I'm up for it!!

 

Just out of curiosity, what would I need to set up a cans headset in each room and one at a main control unit? that way, I could have the director relaying cues??! Are these expensive to hire?

 

Thanks for your input guys

 

Em

xx

[sam.henderson]

All you would need to set-up a cans system is (talking techpro here as it is most commonly used) a 'Master Station' and a headset (that goes directly into the master station for you presumably) and then 3 pin XLR to a Beltpack into all the rooms direct out of the back of the masterstation with a headset attached to the beltpack. Then you can either go from the masterstation again to get a feed to the next room or daisy chain off from the other beltpack. You can have a maximum of 3 (maybe 4) beltpacks coming out of the standard TechPro master station but you can use more if you daisy chain beltpacks together.

 

HTH

 

Sam

[Don]

If you want comms in different room for only you and the director, you would be better off renting two mobile radios and headsets, thus no cable! You could rent more if you need to there is no limit.

Easy to find, many lighting or sound rental houses have radios or there are special companys like audiolink or tecradio.

[Just Some Bloke]

The Minipaks are the 3 channel dimmers but a few Grelcoes and I can pair up the lanterns giving me plenty.  Some of the scenes will be going for harsh looks-a lot of it will be very stylised material.  they are also school kids so they will be going for this 'different' look! I'd rather use the minipaks because a) we have them available for free and b) the amount of cabling is seriously reduced with them.  I like the minipaks-they're a nice piece of kit for this sort of stuff.

 

Em

xx

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm worried that if you're running all your dimmer packs at full capacity (with grelcos on each channel) you need to be careful about total power consumption. If you're running a full 13A out of 5 rooms that gives you 65A in total which will be a huge problem if thery're all on the same ring main. Even half of that could be a problem depending on the main breaker.

 

Don't forget to check that each room has enough power, each ring main has enough power, and the building as a whole has enough power. Don't forget, also, that you'll not be the only one pulling power. Is there any sound, any catering, any practical props etc which need to be taken into account?

 

Worth looking into in advance.

 

JSB

[Suzette]

Is there any way you can get one more person to help you out? Then, if you go with the local control in each room, you and A. N. Other can leapfrog each other from room to room so you always have a technician in the room before the audience come in and still there when the audience leave.

[Russ]

If you want comms in different room for only you and the director, you would be better off renting two mobile radios and headsets, thus no cable! You could rent more if you need to there is no limit. 

Easy to find, many lighting or sound rental houses have radios or there are special companys like audiolink or tecradio.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Seconding this idea, I've used the Motorola Talkabouts before, they have rather good range, and you can get earpieces and lapel mics for them. We've actually used them as well as a standard comms system for a show before - as a noise boy I like them because I can wear headphones over the top of the earpiece, which is doubly good. Plus our comms system headsets are painfully uncomfortable.

[mac.calder]

<SNIP>

 

I'm worried that if you're running all your dimmer packs at full capacity (with grelcos on each channel) you need to be careful about total power consumption.  If you're running a full 13A out of 5 rooms that gives you 65A in total which will be a huge problem if thery're all on the same ring main.  Even half of that could be a problem depending on the main breaker.

 

Don't forget to check that each room has enough power, each ring main has enough power, and the building as a whole has enough power.  Don't forget, also, that you'll not be the only one pulling power.  Is there any sound, any catering, any practical props etc which need to be taken into account?

 

Worth looking into in advance.

 

JSB

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Actually, I doubt she will ever draw 65A. That 65A would be drawing 13A in each room AT THE SAME TIME. I doubt there would ever be any more than 2 rooms lit at a time, and often I assume they would be cross faded out. That is 26A, and that assumes all lights at 100%. We did a 'show' (I think of it more as a ghost tour) in an old building, seven rooms. We had the same special considerations - ie the lack of large power supplies. By having a low light state in the two rooms as people walked between, the total power consumption at any one point was less than 10A, with PA. We manually controled with quad-packs and two operators. One would be in the first room running the lights, whilst the second prepared for the entrance in the next group. When they changed rooms, op1 would bring the lights down, pull out the power stripps and jug plug on the quad-pack and move to the next room to be shown, and plug it all in. It cut close a few times, but it was a fun project. Whilst all the cool lx gear is great fun, sometimes the best stuff is done with a limited budget, strange location and lack of equiptment. It helped that our rooms were rather small, so we used a LOT of birdies and 250W MAX lights.

[Just Some Bloke]

Actually, I doubt she will ever draw 65A.

I was intentionally giving the "worst-case scenario". I meant only to point out that power requirements are best thought about in advance rather than taking fuses and/or breakers on the day. Until you've looked at the circuit breakers involved you'll never be quite sure if your plans are going to work!

[jfitzpat]

triggered by regular wall switches, some discretely hidden switches, and a few props (ex. lifting an old phone handset triggering a special).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

A props triggered cue by using discrete switches sounds a bit more than simple. :) Yes easily done but not as simple as an operator with local controlled dimmers ect.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I guess I should have said 'as simple as possible'. The problem in that show was that audience members would follow cast into fairly intimate spaces, a 'servant's bedroom', a 'secret passage way', and even listening from inside a 'closet'.

 

Having a visible crew would have spoiled the mood in the small spaces. I briefly considered having a 'plant' follow each actor, but it seemed awkward. The plant would have to always force their way into position. The audience naturally yielded to the moves of the cast, but would be annoyed at having someone always push to certain spots.

 

And, another consideration was crew size. Either way, stationed in rooms or trailing each cast member, I would have had 8-10 operators every performance. This still might have been cheaper than wiring everything back to a central location, but not nearly as cheap and simple as just having mostly fixed looks and the actors trigger the handful of changes as needed...

 

-jjf