2 Bar Lighting

[BobJ]

We have a smallish stage about 30' x 25' with just one lighting bar - just stage side of the proscenium (chalk line). We do have another bar about 30' away - back of auditorium.

When we illuminate the stage we have of course beams coming down at 45degrees which puts actors' faces near stage edge into shadow. And, those DS can have some light shading.

I bring up some ADJ 1000 Encore Ellipsoids to reduce these shadows but that can in itself produce strong shadows on the back drop that some directors complain about! Are they being realistic?

Would some 'foot' lights help? Other ideas welcome.

[paulears]

No, not really. The most pleasant lighting angle that looks ok and doesn't cast too many shadows is when it hits from a 45 degree angle coming down from in front. Footlights, with their sharp upwards tilt were never good lighting, just the only real solution when they first got popular. The biggest problem is simply that the sun creates shadows under our eye brows, and under our chin - this looks 'natural'. Light from below gives shadows where the cheekbones get in the way, and fills in under the chin and under the eyebrows - which looks weird. So weird that makeup was frequently worn to artificially counteract this lighting's impact on faces. When you see footlighting nowadays it looks artificial, intense and just wrong. If you only have a bar behind where the performs are standing, then your only other possibility is using the frontal light, that as you discovered, is pretty nasty to stare at and projects big shadows. Is there any way you can rig an advance bar, so you get the pleasant downwards lighting? A busy holiday centre near me has exactly the same problem and despite lots of money for a recent refurb, their lighting still looks dreadful, and very often the visiting turns request the FOH lighting to be dimmed as it blinds them, and of course when they are happy, the audience can't see them.

 

 

The usual LX bar, upstage of the house tabs is no use at all for face lighting, as you found out.

[adam2]

Foot lights are VERY last century, but can be helpful in special cases when lighting bars are not positioned optimally.

 

Lanterns hung too close to the stage will of course give light almost downwards and result in over deep shadowing. In such cases footlights can help by filling in the shadows that result from lighting almost overhead.

 

 

 

[Don Allen]

Have a look at Lighting The Amateur Stage Part 1 in the section FINDING THE COMPROMISE, you have the classic McCandless agles of 45 degrees up, 45 degrees to each side and a back light from behind. There are a lot of good articles and publications on the McCandless Method such as Stage Lighting For Students .

 

If you have a small stage that the directors divide into downstage and upstage for blocking, stand downstage centre, raise your arms up to 45 degrees and spread them out to 45 degrees and if you look along your arms, you should be pointing at the ideal position of your downstage lighting bar. Similar for upstage centre.

 

Of course life is full of compromises due to your venue, budget, resources etc, so we do the best we can.

 

The directors are being realistic about not wanting shadows on the rear wall as it is distracting to the audience.

 

Footlights might help, but they need to be compact so they do not obstruct the actors on the stage. The shadows cast from the footlights need to go up into the roof space when they are not distracting.

 

Some of the earlier English stage lighting handbooks such as Francis Reid's The Stage Lighting Handbook are more useful for small amateur theatres.

 

Stage Lighting Step By Step is a good overall lighting book.See also Lighting The Amateur Stage Part 2.

[BobJ]

No, not really. The most pleasant lighting angle that looks ok and doesn't cast too many shadows is when it hits from a 45 degree angle coming down from in front. Footlights, with their sharp upwards tilt were never good lighting, just the only real solution when they first got popular. The biggest problem is simply that the sun creates shadows under our eye brows, and under our chin - this looks 'natural'. Light from below gives shadows where the cheekbones get in the way, and fills in under the chin and under the eyebrows - which looks weird. So weird that makeup was frequently worn to artificially counteract this lighting's impact on faces. When you see footlighting nowadays it looks artificial, intense and just wrong. If you only have a bar behind where the performs are standing, then your only other possibility is using the frontal light, that as you discovered, is pretty nasty to stare at and projects big shadows. Is there any way you can rig an advance bar, so you get the pleasant downwards lighting? A busy holiday centre near me has exactly the same problem and despite lots of money for a recent refurb, their lighting still looks dreadful, and very often the visiting turns request the FOH lighting to be dimmed as it blinds them, and of course when they are happy, the audience can't see them.

 

 

The usual LX bar, upstage of the house tabs is no use at all for face lighting, as you found out.

 

That was a lot of good information. I think I may have not used the correct terminology to describe the bar's position (I read in an old book it was above the "Chalk line"!) . Our bar is placed right above the front edge of the stage. Just behind a wall to screen the lights from the audience. I've heard folks on the main stage call it the proscenium bar. That foot lights stuff was particular interesting.

In a nutshell I think then - for most of the stage - we have the best we can get i.e. 45 degree lamps pointing down onto actors faces. The problem occurs when they move downstage so much they are underneath the bean angle. Other repliers noted some texts which I am off hunting for today. And I do need to brush up on the terms like "Frontal bar" "LX" bar and so on.

 

[timsabre]

Can you post some photos of the space you are discussing? It sounds like your "back of auditorium" bar is quite low down, if you are getting shadows on the cyc from it.

[paulears]

The first bar upstage of the proscenium wall would typically be LX1 - the first bar, and then 2 is upstage of that etc etc. The one over the audience's heads close to the stage might be called an advance bar, because often it's in between the performers and the lights attached to the building - either in the ceiling or on the front of the circle edge. Circle front lighting often does exactly what you are describing, and many venues try to get lights into better places - often on strange bits off scaffolding, but now it's far more common to rig a bar in a much better place for the lighting (and worse for the aesthetics) and achieve the magic 45/45 degree angles so often talked about.

 

It does sound like your bar is just too close to the edge of the stage to light faces, and your choice is very limited. Even footlights would have the same problem - a very steep angle when people stand close to the edge. Mind you - putting in an obstacle on the stage edge forces the performers upstage a bit where the lights above might just work. Other possibilities would seem to be few - the panel that hides the lights on that bar from the audience - could you remove it, and then cantilever another bar out on outriggers of some kind? A couple of feet towards the audience could be great, and then fit the panel to that if you want to hide them? Probably impossible, so the only real thing that you could do simply is stop people going forward somehow. Or any chance of some brackets on the side wall in the audience area?

[timsabre]

Or any chance of some brackets on the side wall in the audience area?

 

That would be my first try, though it depends how wide the space is.

[Junior8]

Paul and Tim are absolutely spot on. In the case of lack of height (a common problem in little theatre type spaces) the side walls would always be my first choice almost irrespective of the width of the space. There are a number of advantages not least if it's solid blockwork that there won't be the uncertainty there often is with the load bearing issues off the ceiling. Simple brackets are easily obtainable. The sad fact is that many spaces have FOH bars far too far back (the designers think it will add flexibility, it seldom does) and also the full width of the space when in fact side positions closer to the performance area are usually far more useful. (In most of these cases performing on the floor with the audience raised would be a far better solution than a stage no matter how low.)Some pix of the space and a plan would help give more accurate advice..

[Jivemaster]

A small lighting ladder on each side wall will let you hang FOH lanterns for better front (face) light, Ladders could even be removed after the show.

 

A moderate lighting bar hung along each side wall of the auditorium would let you position FOH lights and have lots of better angles to light from.

 

Ultimately each will need fixing wiring back to dimmers and some control circuitry, and, in a small venue you should consider whether sufficient power is available where you need it.

[BobJ]

To all replies about our small stage lighting and in particular the nomenclature "LX1" and so. I think most of you hit it right on the head. Side walls! I went to a theatre just a bit bigger than ours and noticed several Ellipsoids on the walls! I am now looking at putting one either side to bring in a 45 degree from a wider angle. I have cut'n pasted all the good stuff into a document and after editing it will make up a my "lighting" notes. Thanks all. Being new to this art I do have some other questions but will put these under another topic. Thanks

[BobJ]

To all replies about our small stage lighting and in particular the nomenclature "LX1" and so. I think most of you hit it right on the head. Side walls! I went to a theatre just a bit bigger than ours and noticed several Ellipsoids on the walls! I am now looking at putting one either side to bring in a 45 degree from a wider angle. I have cut'n pasted all the good stuff into a document and after editing it will make up a my "lighting" notes. Thanks all. Being new to this art I do have some other questions but will put these under another topic. Thanks

[ninjadingle]

Bob, it may be worth hiring a few t bar tripods with local dimmers etc so you can experiment a little with positioning before committing to drilling into your walls! But side lighting is the way to go.

[timsabre]

As we've discussed using Capture in another thread, you could use that to test out the best position for your side wall lighting. (This is not technically side lighting which would be a 90 degree angle from the stage wings)

[paulears]

My quaint, but 1400 capacity summer venue was built in 1958. It has a very low ceiling in the all on one level auditorium - about 6m from the floor. It has ten circuits installed for FOH lighting - 3 in a slot left, three right and 4 centre. None of them are capable of lighting the stage in any meaningful manner - in fact, if you do every stick anything in these slots, there is a few inches tilt up and down, and the side slots are at quite an angle from centre, so they all land roughly in the same place. Back in 1964, they added a drop bar under these so at least they can hot useful parts of the stage - but - the angle is very face front, and the lighting flat and rabbits in headlights style. They even messed this up in 1958 in a big venue - so yours isn't unique.