Karel Bata Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Hi, I want to recreate an arts installation where I used an in-house ETC Souce 4 15/20 Zoom. It was a brilliant light! I used to work in theatre lighting (and loved every minute) before moving into film, so many of the current lanterns are new to me. And boy, have they upped their game! The current cost of that Source 4 is anywhere between £400-600 +VAT! Is there anything that performs as well (or nearly as)? It needs to take a metal gobo, and not be LED. And anywhere I could go to try it out? I'm based in London. Cheers! http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexforey Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Is renting not an option? Source 4s are so ubiquitous in the UK theatre market that they can be had for as little as £5/week each in the right places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karel Bata Posted December 31, 2017 Author Share Posted December 31, 2017 I need something with that beam angle, and some scope for adjusting it. This will vary from venue to venue. It's kind of specific to this installation. Zooms are not as cheap, nor common, as the basic units unfortunately. Thanks for the input though. http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Almost every rental house in the UK has a multitude of Source Four Zooms in stock, both the 15/30 and 25/50, as LED and tungsten halogen (HPL). The zoom lens tube assembly fits on the front of standard tungsten, S4LED and ColorSource lamp house/light engine instead of the fixed-angle one. They just swap them around as needed. Hire prices for an HPL tungsten tend to be around £5 to £15 per week - depending on how many you want and where you are. Hiring is very, very cheap and trivial to do practically everywhere in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRW Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Whilst I agree with the others that hiring a source 4 probably shouldn't break the bank, you could probably pick up a Cantata 18/32 pretty cheaply- a quick browse of Ebay shows one currently going for £40. Depending on how detailed your gobo is, might this do the job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karel Bata Posted January 2, 2018 Author Share Posted January 2, 2018 Thanks for the suggestions. I'll look into that. http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif Been perusing eBay. Some bargains there! In the Cantata range the 11/26 seems the closest to what I'm looking for, and it looks ideal for a larger venue, but for where I am this time it seems a bit too meaty - 1200W and 16kg is a bit bright and heavy I fear. Is there anything a bit smaller with that kind of beam angle for projecting a gobo? This needs to be about 6 metres away hitting a target of 1m diameter. An unusual requirement I know... http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the kid Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 http://www.seal-fla.com/etc-beam-spread-calculator/ will give you an idea. But 1m and being picky with what you are hitting it might be worth getting an iris. It all depends on how picky you are with EXACTLY 6m or not, and what the gobo is showing / can you loose some image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karel Bata Posted January 2, 2018 Author Share Posted January 2, 2018 Cheers. http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif Has someone done an online guide / chart of all the common lamps with power, beam angles, weights..? Or is asking that a fresh thread here? (I bet someone's posted it already) BTW I've tried using a projector and it just hasn't got the wack. Would do if I could zoom down to that nartrow an angle, but the beam spread is meant for large screens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alistermorton Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 You might find that, compared to the Source 4, the Cantata isn't as bright as you think it will be. Our S4s are brighter than our (aging) 2k Sil, for example. OK, older design than the Cantata, but the S4 is very good at making light come out the front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgallen Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 1m spread at 6m throw looks to be about a 10 degree beam angle (*). A 10 degree lens for a Source 4 is physically quite large but maybe you could hire one and also a 14 degree lens (which is much smaller) and try those out? Maybe add in an iris to play with.(I work out a 14 degree S4 with HPL575/240 lamp gives 6521 lux @6m, 1.26m beam spread) There is also the Source 4 Junior which will be cheaper, but the zoom lens for that is 25-50 and the tightest fixed lens is 26 degrees. At the other extreme, maybe look at a CCT Minuette Consenser profile which goes down to 17 degrees:http://www.cctlighti...te_Profile.html(1055 lux @6m, 1.8m beam spread). I suspect this lantern will eat through gobos though. Kevin (*) using: angle = 2 x tan^(-1) (1 / (2 x 6) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandall Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 At the other extreme, maybe look at a CCT Minuette Consenser profile which goes down to 17 degrees: I suspect this will eat through gobos though.Kevin Not to mention that they would only be M-size. I'm surprised that nobody has suggested a 2nd-hand Strand SL 15/32. Not as robust as a Source-4 (therefore not nearly as heavy), but roughly equivalent to a 575W S4 15/30 & takes the same B-size gobo. It also has a conventional 2-knob zoom/focus arrangement, rather than ETC's much-too-clever-for-mere-mortals-to-make-work system. If you are looking to hire you may need to hunt around, as the big boys like White Light have probably "retired" their hire stock .However, as Kevin points out, 1m spread at 6m, is only about 10-degrees, so no off-the-shelf zoom will do the job without sacrificing a lot of light output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karel Bata Posted January 2, 2018 Author Share Posted January 2, 2018 Thanks chief. I'll take a look at that. Someone's PM'd me about an ADB Warp profile zoom he has which goes down to 12 degrees. Looks attractive, but at 12-14kg maybe a bit heavy. Anyone have thoughts on that? I know it's not dimmable, but for me that's not an issue. With nothing really offering the power/weight/price I was hoping for I'm kind of veering towards hire now. After all, if I go aborad the sheer hassle of carting this thing around will offset local hire costs. What if someone drops it? Etc. And as someone pointed out - what if local power's not 230V? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alistermorton Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Someone's PM'd me about an ADB Warp profile zoom he has which goes down to 12 degrees. Looks attractive, but at 12-14kg maybe a bit heavy. Anyone have thoughts on that? I know it's not dimmable, but for me that's not an issue. Why isn't it dimmable? From that datasheet, it seems to be a halogen lamp, eminently dimmable Have I missed something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karel Bata Posted January 2, 2018 Author Share Posted January 2, 2018 This one has a 575/2 discharge lamp fitted. Nice bright output, but a bit heavy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alistermorton Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 This one has a 575/2 discharge lamp fitted. Nice bright output, but a bit heavy. Aha. May have a mechanical dimmer, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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