axle Posted May 16, 2005 Author Share Posted May 16, 2005 Yes, I understand all that. So ask him to do them, but then leave him to get on with it! You aren't qualified enough, experienced enough, or insured enough to advise him on how to do it; so if he needs this advice you'll have to get him to seek it elsewhere. I know this sounds tough, but ultimately it's for your own protection! If these things were designed to be fitted by schoolkids we wouldn't have trained electricians....<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Never said I was gonna tell him how to do his job, just what we need him to do. I didn't ask mst of these questions so that I could then go and do te work without an experience/qualification but simply ro get a headstart on understanding what I'm gonna do on and technical lighting courses. The only thing I am likely to be doing is rigging lights and plugging them in, possibly hanging the dimmers on the wall as it's 'a builders job not an electricians' and rewiring the light and relocating the plug socket in the booth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djw1981 Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 I think you may find that although you may be competent, most schools require the work (ie re-siting a light switch and socket) to be done by a qualified and authorised person for the reasons of their public liability insurance. ie, if the week after you did this, someone were to electrocute themselves and sue the school, the school would transfer this to you. Although you maybe qualified to carry out such a task, do you have any insurance? Many schools have a handyman / caretaker or a contract for such odd-jobs and electrical maintainance for just this reason. It may be seen as stupid beaurocracy, but it is there for a reason. Wiring up stuff for a show is one thing, but altering a permanent install comes under the installation regs which are quite detailed. See many other posts on here. Were the school to want a qualified electrician to check on your work, he may pick many faults and appear to have to redo it in order to keep the job, and to prove to the school that they need him. Edit: Speel chunk converted from US to UK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axle Posted May 16, 2005 Author Share Posted May 16, 2005 Unfortunately, the whole insurance thing is the only thing that's actally stopped me selling the services. :/ I could always invite the headteacher round to my house to show her all the wiring I did in the extension.... >.> The only reason I've been trying to convince them to let me do it is because small jobs like that tend to get done by the D&T teachers.... who know less about electrics/electronics than 60%* of their current stdents *would be higher if it weren't for the high chav ratio taking electronics lessons as an easy option o.O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djw1981 Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Unfortunately, the whole insurance thing is the only thing that's actally stopped me selling the services. :/ I could always invite the headteacher round to my house to show her all the wiring I did in the extension.... >.> The only reason I've been trying to convince them to let me do it is because small jobs like that tend to get done by the D&T teachers.... who know less about electrics/electronics than 60%* of their current stdents *would be higher if it weren't for the high chav ratio taking electronics lessons as an easy option o.O<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes but teachers are covered by school insurance. You have to remeber at the end of the day that there are worse things than a show not being as good as you want, and being safe, free and without a huge fine is one of them. I would always prefer a simple show run on a good safe infrastructyure which could be run by anyone when I wasn't there (ok I mainly do sound, but the principle is similar) than a great flashy show which was a danger to someone who was just starting out. We all want to do nice flashy shiws with top iof the range kit, but on an install, the infrastructure is most important always. If it is safe and well setup, then it can be added to by competent experienced people, or used as it is by those less experienced without risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axle Posted May 16, 2005 Author Share Posted May 16, 2005 I've been on about the infrastructure mainly over the last few pages o.o I want it to be safe, hence why I asked for advice on here before I organise what's going to get done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V.A. Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 That's great, it's just from alot of your posts I've got the impression that you're wanting advice on how to do things you shouldn't really be doing. Theoretical knowledge is a really great thing, but you're not qualified or experienced! In a similar vein, I know how and when to perform a range of emergency medical procedures, but never in a million years would I perform them on a patient, no matter how critical things got! Anyway, maybe we should move on from this particular point now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axle Posted May 16, 2005 Author Share Posted May 16, 2005 Not saying I wouldn't mind doing it, but I'm not that stupid that I'm gonna go and do something beyond my theoretical and practical knowledge/experience. :P But yeh, any suggestions for how to spend the £10K we're after getting out of the schools quarter mil. specialist bid? P.S. the consensus between the others I'm doing this with is that the Act6 would be a good bet for dimmer replacements but we still need suggestions for a good control method, what to do about lights and what to do with any left over money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djw1981 Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 whilst you may ask for advice surely this is to be discussed with school staff to put together a basic specification to give to a specialist adviser /loxal install company etc. local government rule mean that schoiols need to put things out to tender and only if they themselves can undercut the bids can they officially do it inhouse. I mean you are not planning on wiring it yourself, surely. V.A. I am glad to hear you are not planning on setting up to do your own operations - it would kinda make my degree worthless! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axle Posted May 16, 2005 Author Share Posted May 16, 2005 *points above* nope, but the crew want the final say in what gets put where. or we're gonna end up with an up to date system that is as useful as the current 30year old one x.x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 I've been reading the posts to this topic for a while, and one thought keeps popping into my head. How can I put this diplomatically ... the only really safe and sensible is to engage the services of a professional theatre consultant who can look at the space you have, consider what's going to be required of it in the future (both by you and by those who come after), and can then suggest ways in which you might move forward with this upgrade project in a manner which will be as widely beneficial as possible. Axle, I'm guessing that you are currently a student at the school which runs the space that's up for refurb (your profile says that you're heading off to college in September). It seems quite likely that the 30 year old system which is currently installed into the space might well have been designed and specified at that time by someone who was in very much the same kind of situation as you are now. And 30 years down the line, it sounds like you can't really find anything good to say about them or the systems that they put into your performance space. 30 years from now, will a future generation of school technicians be expressing similar sentiments? I'd suggest that the only safe and sensible way forward is to engage the services of someone who has experience of specifying performance technical systems (and I don't mean a supplier, who will only be interested in specifying what they sell - I'm talking about an experienced, impartial theatre consultant or some other knowledgable professional), and have them work with you on this project. That way, you stand more than a fighting chance of creating something which is as good as it can possibly be, and which you can pass on to the next 'batch' of technical crew safe in the knowledge that they've got something really good to work with. Understand that I'm in no way attempting to belittle the valid input which you are clearly able to make into the project - I'm just saying that it might be worth considering whether it might benefit you, and everyone who will work in the space after you, to get some players on your team who really know what they're talking about, and who can approach the project in an objective way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axle Posted May 16, 2005 Author Share Posted May 16, 2005 Paragraph 1: I don't know any theatre consultants in the local area (not that the school is likely to pay for one if they found one) 2: Nope, not been a student there for 2 years, off to Uni in September. I see your point and that's another reason I was seeking advice from people who have been in the business for a while. Hopefully (but not likely) the refurb will be maintained properly with small upgrades as needed rather than having to overhaul again 30 years down the line. 3&4: If you can point me to someone up in the Liverpool area who the school will be willing to pay then I'll more than gladly work with them, it gets abetter result in the end and I get a little experience and knowledge off whoever comes in to spec it all up. EDIT: One of the recent additions to the science depts. technicians is a regular in a recording studio along with his band, he was really involved in the audio stuff at the start but he seems to have drifted away from this o.O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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