Comms / onsite comms

[fluidaudiodesigns]

Hi

 

Can anyone offer some advice on license free comms / two way radios for medium size venues?

 

I could do with four radios for comms during rigging but also for during events. The comms need to be portable so you can be up a ladder and hear communications but also need to have the facility for headsets for during an event. Also they need to be fairly robust as I may use them on site when doing installations.

 

I have found the following, that seems to tick most boxes, also a heads up on a good place to buy, Direct Radios seems to be pretty cheap but also hire. The only issue is most sites say the TK3301t has been discontinued, which doesn't really bother me: -

Kenwood TK3301t - main body

Kenwood KHS 10 oh - for during the event

 

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

Cheers

Robin

[paulears]

The Kenwoods, like the similar Icons and Motorolas are fine - don't forget a multi charger to add into the budget.

To be honest, the only real issue, and in practice it's not that much of a problem, is that the licence free channels (exactly the same problem with radio mic licence free channels) can often be full at a busy event, and are uncoordinated. You could find that members of the audience at a festival, for instance have given them to the kids to stop them getting lost! There are only a small number of frequencies, and there are now digital ones using the same block of frequencies, which makes it even worse.

 

The Kenwood radios are pretty good, I have plenty of Kenwoods in my hire stock, and that particular model does decent battery time, and the only real issue I ever have with that model range is that the plastic mouldings can occasionally leave the tiny hole for the mic obscured - and a small drill easily sorts that out. Spare batteries are cheap too.

 

The Kenwood headsets are good too - BUT - they really clamp your ears, making them unpleasant to wear for long periods. You can find a common Chinese headset that is quite a bit cheaper and fit under hard hats - they have the metal band at the back of the neck, and a simple velcro fixed strap over the top which allows a hard hat to go over the top, which may be required for rigging. The Kenwood one prevents a hard hard being worn. The chinese ones are equally horrible to wear of course, but that's normal for ones that cut the volume down. They have a button PTT, and a PTT on the ear shell too, which is handy. You can find these on ebay - usually red or yellow in colour. They come with a cable that just needs an adaptor for the brand of the radio.

 

The license for business use allows a bit more power, and separation from the public and kiddie walkie talkies - not that expensive and gives you 5 years, so personally, I'd go nowhere near PMR446 - although having said that, we're using Motorola PMR446 units on this show, and only get occasional interference. On a festival, however, the kids will drive you mad. Even if they are on a different tone, they can still wipe out important radio traffic.

[fluidaudiodesigns]

Hey paulears

 

Thanks for the quick reply and the heads up on a multi charger. I am starting to think licensed is the way to go now, how much do licenses cost, or is that a peace of string question?

 

Interesting point about headset wearability, what's your preference for headsets and yes my guys wear hardhats for some of the time (although not up a truss or ladder, scaffold usually for installs), so any pointers would be good.

 

Thanks again for your advice.

 

Cheers

Robin

 

The Kenwoods, like the similar Icons and Motorolas are fine - don't forget a multi charger to add into the budget.

To be honest, the only real issue, and in practice it's not that much of a problem, is that the licence free channels (exactly the same problem with radio mic licence free channels) can often be full at a busy event, and are uncoordinated. You could find that members of the audience at a festival, for instance have given them to the kids to stop them getting lost! There are only a small number of frequencies, and there are now digital ones using the same block of frequencies, which makes it even worse.

 

The Kenwood radios are pretty good, I have plenty of Kenwoods in my hire stock, and that particular model does decent battery time, and the only real issue I ever have with that model range is that the plastic mouldings can occasionally leave the tiny hole for the mic obscured - and a small drill easily sorts that out. Spare batteries are cheap too.

 

The Kenwood headsets are good too - BUT - they really clamp your ears, making them unpleasant to wear for long periods. You can find a common Chinese headset that is quite a bit cheaper and fit under hard hats - they have the metal band at the back of the neck, and a simple velcro fixed strap over the top which allows a hard hat to go over the top, which may be required for rigging. The Kenwood one prevents a hard hard being worn. The chinese ones are equally horrible to wear of course, but that's normal for ones that cut the volume down. They have a button PTT, and a PTT on the ear shell too, which is handy. You can find these on ebay - usually red or yellow in colour. They come with a cable that just needs an adaptor for the brand of the radio.

 

The license for business use allows a bit more power, and separation from the public and kiddie walkie talkies - not that expensive and gives you 5 years, so personally, I'd go nowhere near PMR446 - although having said that, we're using Motorola PMR446 units on this show, and only get occasional interference. On a festival, however, the kids will drive you mad. Even if they are on a different tone, they can still wipe out important radio traffic.

[paulears]

The radio to radio license is £75 for five years. If you need more complex systems with repeaters etc, then these need to be site specific, or part of a hired in system - but just to get away from the kids and casual users of PMR446 is good value - plus you can buy all kinds of radios, new and secondhand.

 

Headset wise - the Chinese ones are typically this one, fished from ebay random ebay seller

 

They're quite tough, but like most designed for noisy environments, they clamp your ears and are quite heavy. These ones have the steel headband sitting on the back of your neck, so will fit the hard hats. There are other over the head types - usually £100-200 or so. A bit more comfy, but they fall off my head quite easily, due to the weight at the top.

 

Digital or not digital is also now a choice to make. On a job where signal strength is unlikely to be an issue, then the slightly poorer voice quality of digital might be important. Digital offers all kinds of signalling and ID opportunities - so radios can identify themselves in a display - to be fair, the more expensive analogue radios can do this too to a degree, but with digits all things are possible with the right programming - so lots of groups, users and heirachy type choices. I suspect that everyone hearing everything is the real primary need for you - so almost any of the radios can be on your list. Simpler is often better. You can do half and half - loads of simple radios with the supervisors or team leaders having the display so they can see who is actually talking - depends on how nosey you need to be!

[fluidaudiodesigns]

Thats great paulears, thanks so much.

The radio to radio license is £75 for five years. If you need more complex systems with repeaters etc, then these need to be site specific, or part of a hired in system - but just to get away from the kids and casual users of PMR446 is good value - plus you can buy all kinds of radios, new and secondhand.

 

Headset wise - the Chinese ones are typically this one, fished from ebay random ebay seller

 

They're quite tough, but like most designed for noisy environments, they clamp your ears and are quite heavy. These ones have the steel headband sitting on the back of your neck, so will fit the hard hats. There are other over the head types - usually £100-200 or so. A bit more comfy, but they fall off my head quite easily, due to the weight at the top.

 

Digital or not digital is also now a choice to make. On a job where signal strength is unlikely to be an issue, then the slightly poorer voice quality of digital might be important. Digital offers all kinds of signalling and ID opportunities - so radios can identify themselves in a display - to be fair, the more expensive analogue radios can do this too to a degree, but with digits all things are possible with the right programming - so lots of groups, users and heirachy type choices. I suspect that everyone hearing everything is the real primary need for you - so almost any of the radios can be on your list. Simpler is often better. You can do half and half - loads of simple radios with the supervisors or team leaders having the display so they can see who is actually talking - depends on how nosey you need to be!

[abbotsmike]

Personally I'd go and get a set of used motorola GP's, a few spare batteries, 6 way charge and the simple UK license that Paulears mentions. In fact, this is exactly what we have!

 

Headsets are something I still haven't fully figured out. The chinese ones aren't that great to wear. Quality noise isolating headsets do exist, but are very expensive. Covert in-ears aren't that comfortable for long periods I find. G-type headsets aren't that great in noisy environments. The adventure continues!

[paulears]

The best ones for long shifts without doubt are Peltors, but they are VERY expensive.

 

I'm surprised nobody has bothered to market IEM style moulds for this purpose - Not quite sure how you'd pair them to a noise cancelling mic, because that's always a bit lumpy and heavy - maybe something like an aerobic instructors headset, with two dangly moulds hanging each side, with a PTT on the headset part? I suppose the problem being they're individual, and not just taken from a heap?

 

My friend is a pilot - he has those very expensive Bose things for his comms, but the actual audio quality is a bit thin sounding, but the noise cancelling thing does work amazingly well - so you don't get tired. I've got some of those Chinese ones, but although I can get used to the head in a vice type clamp to keep the noise out - the weight just is a bit much. The Peltors I use on my occasional cameraman jobs are quite comfy, but they get really hot and sweaty inside. I don't think the perfect ones have been made yet?

[Jivemaster]

Many makers make for the pilot market Their products are nice everywhere except the wallet. Specific aviation headsets will have some odd connectors.

[henny]

If budget is an issue the Baofeng 888's are great value for money and the audio quality is good tooo , the only thing to note is you must re tune them to uk legal frequencys using the USB cable , this takes about 10 seconds a radio once you have the software installed.

 

 

,https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221963806541