Lee: the missing colours

[Illuminatio]

Many years ago, back in the early 1990s, Lee dropped the colour 109 (light salmon) from their line-up. A small group of us petitioned them to continue making it, and they promised that they would, provided we placed orders making it worth their while. No doubt many shows in the South of England were lit predominantly in 109 for many months thereafter. Happily, 109 remains in the catalogue.

 

Other colours have not been so lucky. Whatever happened, for example, to 114, Ruby Red? Why is there no 123? What is the mystery of the missing colours?

[richard_cooper]

Many years ago, back in the early 1990s, Lee dropped the colour 109 (light salmon) from their line-up. A small group of us petitioned them to continue making it, and they promised that they would, provided we placed orders making it worth their while. No doubt many shows in the South of England were lit predominantly in 109 for many months thereafter. Happily, 109 remains in the catalogue.

 

Other colours have not been so lucky. Whatever happened, for example, to 114, Ruby Red? Why is there no 123? What is the mystery of the missing colours?

 

I don't know Illuminatio. Conspiracy?

[emsgeorge]

I would of thought, as the LED world gets better and better, that the likes of such a niche supplier like LEE, would find it increasingly harder to sell their product in sufficient quantities to stay afloat.

 

Sad, but I do wonder how long they will survive once LED gets power and decent colour rendition to a T. (and price of course)

 

Will the generic market squeeze so much that its simply not viable to produce gel any more. Its not as if there are many manufacturers out there, and therefore LEE require economies of scale to keep going.

[timsabre]

I would of thought, as the LED world gets better and better, that the likes of such a niche supplier like LEE, would find it increasingly harder to sell their product in sufficient quantities to stay afloat.

Sad, but I do wonder how long they will survive once LED gets power and decent colour rendition to a T. (and price of course)

Will the generic market squeeze so much that its simply not viable to produce gel any more. Its not as if there are many manufacturers out there, and therefore LEE require economies of scale to keep going.

 

I would have thought that the usage of gel in TV and film is far greater than in theatre, and they aren't moving to LED anytime soon. This is just a guess but TV/film lighting seems to go through gel in vast quantities, though a much smaller range of colour.

[alistermorton]

It may well be that the market shrinks so that it's only the likes of Rosco and Lee left, I suppose, with smaller ranges, but I think Tim is on the button there - theatre is just a part of the market.

[sandall]

Other colours have not been so lucky.

Long before the arrival of the CT ranges, when I first started stage lighting Steel & Straw were the go-to Cinemoid colours for cold & warm. I never found a satisfactory replacement for Steel Tint (17?) when it didn't make it to the Lee swatch-book.

[adam2]

I would have thought that the usage of gel in TV and film is far greater than in theatre, and they aren't moving to LED anytime soon. This is just a guess but TV/film lighting seems to go through gel in vast quantities, though a much smaller range of colour.

 

TV studios don't use much gel, the light source was until recently halogen lamps selected to give a consistent 3,200K with little need for colour correction or adjustment. LED lights are used increasingly in TV studios and seldom need gel.

 

TV outside broadcasts use some gel in order that the lights supplied by the TV crew may blend in with existing natural or electric lighting. But it wont be long until the lights will be adjustable colour LEDs, no gel needed.

 

Location filming still uses a lot of gel, mainly in order that the film lights, almost always high power discharge sources, may blend with natural daylight. I suspect that film lighting will soon be LED and that the colour temperature and the green/magenta balance will be electronically adjustable.

 

"Real" photographic film is rapidly becoming obsolete with feature films increasing being "filmed" digitally, manipulated, edited, and COLOUR CORRECTED electronically, and then digitally projected in the cinema. All without any use of actual chemical photographic processes.

 

Modern video cameras are more forgiving of low light levels than real film, and the colour balance is readily adjusted post production.

 

IMHO, the manufacture of colour gel is a rapidly declining industry, in not many years it will go the way of arc lamp carbons, gas mantles, and oil lamp wicks, all of which are still available but not exactly popular items of mainstream trade.

 

 

 

[Renny]

Other colours have not been so lucky.

Long before the arrival of the CT ranges, when I first started stage lighting Steel & Straw were the go-to Cinemoid colours for cold & warm. I never found a satisfactory replacement for Steel Tint (17?) when it didn't make it to the Lee swatch-book.

 

Well they did translate it to 117 but it was never as good. They seem to have admitted they got it wrong and luckily we now have 725 (Old Steel Blue) which is pretty close to how I remember steel blue from when I first started in theatre.

[Nat_Keiller]

I would have thought that the usage of gel in TV and film is far greater than in theatre, and they aren't moving to LED anytime soon. This is just a guess but TV/film lighting seems to go through gel in vast quantities, though a much smaller range of colour.

 

LED is picking up hugely in TV though. Some of the products out there now are fantastic. LED source fours are common. The Arri L5/L7/L10s are a common sight now. Flat panel LED soft lights are a staple of both location work and certain studio shows. I work on a number of productions where LED is the main lighting, or a major component of it. The Arri units mentioned above have a fantastic white that really does match tungsten pretty perfectly, and dims to zero fantastically. They would work wonderfully in theatre (if and when the price drops and/or when theatrical hire companies stock them).

 

 

TV studios don't use much gel, the light source was until recently halogen lamps selected to give a consistent 3,200K with little need for colour correction or adjustment. LED lights are used increasingly in TV studios and seldom need gel.

 

 

Not neccessarily true. Some productions will use more than others. Gelling up perhaps 100 4-cell 1k Floods to top and bottom light a cyc uses a fair few rolls. It's not unusual to use a fair amount of CTO and CTB (1/8, 1/4, 1/2, full, double) on certain types of production. It's also fairly common to use LED to correct LED set pieces and other sources to look right on camera.

 

Working across theatre and TV its interesting to notice the differing attitudes to gel. In theatre we save and cherish the small amounts of gel we have. In TV it wouldn't be particularly unusual to rip down a whole roll of something to make what are effectively half sheets to attach to the front of barndoors on 2ks or 5ks. There's also quite a lot more wastage in TV. The change in colour temperature and transmission of used gel can be much more noticeable when matching sources on camera than you can get away with to the naked eye in theatre.

[boatman]

LED works fine in TV nowadays as the RGB primaries in the LEDs are very close to those in the camera filters. That wasn't the case a few years ago.

[sandall]

LED works fine in TV nowadays as the RGB primaries in the LEDs are very close to those in the camera filters. That wasn't the case a few years ago.

LED is great for washes & wagglers, & ok for backlights, but can't touch tungsten for the "poke" needed by keylights

[Nat_Keiller]

LED works fine in TV nowadays as the RGB primaries in the LEDs are very close to those in the camera filters. That wasn't the case a few years ago.

LED is great for washes & wagglers, & ok for backlights, but can't touch tungsten for the "poke" needed by keylights

 

It's not perfect yet, but the products are getting better and better all the time. As I mentioned above the L5 and L7s are fairly common now on jobs as keys and fills. An L7 almost produces as much light as a 1k. The L10s compete well with a 2k, but are fairly large and cumbersome.

 

How much "poke" is needed is completely dependent on the line up done on the cameras, and if done correctly then there is really no reason why LED can't be used for key light. We do it all the time.

[sandall]

I never found a satisfactory replacement for Steel Tint (17?) when it didn't make it to the Lee swatch-book.

Well they did translate it to 117 but it was never as good.

It was a replacement for 67 Steel Tint that I was missing (just found my Cinemoid swatch book). No problem with 117 replacing 17, but when I did a run of Brecht plays 67 was quite good for turning tungsten into Brecht "white".