Projector for mobile live dance band

[ImagineerTom]

Realistically you're going to need to be looking at something closer to 10,000 lumens and expect to spend around an hour at each gig/venue setting this video system up and calibrating it to the venue for it to work. Over time and with experience (and expertise) you may be able to get the projector power and setup times down but if you want this to have a realistic chance of looking half decent, not being washed-out by other lights and working /most/ of the time in /most/ of the venues you work in then that is the sort of commitment you should be expecting to make.

[dedzyyy]

I see...

 

I found an Epson EB-460 on eBay. 3000 lumens, 2000:1 contrast, 4:3 aspect ratio. Lamps are pretty cheap.

I know it's only 3000 lumens, but at only 80cm away from the screen, I can get a 4m image.

 

I might just take a punt at that. Worse case scenario = me and the mrs have a great projector for the house we're about to buy! haha.

 

Oh, and because of the short throw, I could probably get away without keystoning it :]

 

Realistically you're going to need to be looking at something closer to 10,000 lumens and expect to spend around an hour at each gig/venue setting this video system up and calibrating it to the venue for it to work. Over time and with experience (and expertise) you may be able to get the projector power and setup times down but if you want this to have a realistic chance of looking half decent, not being washed-out by other lights and working /most/ of the time in /most/ of the venues you work in then that is the sort of commitment you should be expecting to make.

 

Yeah, I have no issue with putting the time in tog et it looking good :]

 

I think what we aim to do is tell the house to not bother with their lighting and just have out own.

Our music is really chilled out techno, and really subtle lighting (aimed away from the screen) will suit it perfectly.

[Shez]

Bear in mind with an ultra short throw like that Epson, the screen really has to be a solid surface, not fabric. Because of the very steep projection angle, even very slight movement of screen fabric will result in huge distortions to the image.

[dedzyyy]

This really is a minefield ennit! haha

 

There must be a way of getting some panels to interlock to make a nice sized screen.

 

What sort of finish would I be after for a screen? Matte?

[lite_lad]

Bear in mind with an ultra short throw like that Epson, the screen really has to be a solid surface, not fabric. Because of the very steep projection angle, even very slight movement of screen fabric will result in huge distortions to the image.

 

Thats not strictly true. (about it being a solid surface) A Properly stretched screen will be fine. I've personally done this many times, one of note was a 25x10m curved screen with 3 projectors on 0.3 lenses. It went on to tour for 6 months and although it was a pain the fabric wasn't an issue.

 

Anyway OP id recommend looking at a fast fold, Although it wont be as flexible as you'd like you will get a proper surface to project onto and get the best out of your projector. Its also made to be assembled easily and quickly but ensure the screen is properly stretched.

 

A quick look on Ebay found this (I realise its not the right size) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/8-x-6-Harkness-Hall-Fast-Fold-Projection-Screen-and-Case-Front-Rear-Surface-/331920573833?hash=item4d48020589:g:PxgAAOSwZVlXmL9Y so I'm sure there will be something within your budget even if it is a bit tatty around the edges. It will also have some resale value if its looked after properly.

 

You would also be able to hire one locally if you did want a different size for a specific venue, there are 1000's available around the country as they're used every day for conferences and shows!

 

And if you are looking at second hand ones look for one which have a small mark or 2 as they'll be significantly cheaper!

[dedzyyy]

Thanks lite lad :]

 

How will the image fare with those folds in the screen?

 

 

That's a good point about hiring something for larger venues.

 

I suppose when I start getting more of a feel for this projection lark, I could always get another projector and look into mapping them.

 

 

 

For software, I was looking at AVmixer Pro. Its 75 euros at the moment with 10% off on top. Also there's a free trial.

I understand it will handle midi in, which is a big thing for me. I want to be able to press go on a track on my hardware sequencer and have the visuals start in sync.

 

https://neuromixer.com/products/avmixer-pro

[lite_lad]

Because of the material the screens are made of (its a flexible plastic ish screen - but its proper projection screen which will have a certain amount of gain and give the best image as far as a surface can help) and how the frame is made with poppers round the edge to put the screen under high tension, any creases which are there are soon pulled out of it.

 

With mapping, I've seen some great simple setups which were cardboard boxes painted white and mapped with 2 projectors from the DS corner. If you are getting an ultra short throw projector though that wont be very well suited to mapping because it has quite complicated optics in it which are already doing a lot of correction so adding another step with mapping isn't easy, although not totally impossible.

 

That software looks like it will do what you need at the moment! But you might want to consider something which will allow you to create more complicated setups when your ready. That could either be something which will output using a protocol called syphon (it allows different programs to send video to each other on the same computer or even over a network) so that you could send it into something like MadMapper and map things OR I'd suggest having a look at Resolume. Its a more well known piece of software which should mean you can get better support for it, and still has all the midi controls and things you want (it can even control lights so that they match the video if you wanted) but when your ready it will allow you to create much more complicated things without having to buy something new. BUT it might be a step too far, there's a trial available so no harm in giving it a go!

 

I'd say your best bet might be seeing how far you can get by yourself (particularly with the software side of things) and then getting someone in for a day who can help really push forwards what you've done. Theres loads of people on here who would be suitable and happy to pass on some knowledge. Likely you'll need to pay their day rate, but you might be lucky enough to find someone who's interested enough in what your doing to help you out!

[dosxuk]

I think what we aim to do is tell the house to not bother with their lighting and just have out own.

Our music is really chilled out techno, and really subtle lighting (aimed away from the screen) will suit it perfectly.

 

Remember if you're pointing lights at your audience's faces, it'll make your projection seem even duller. And without smoke / haze those lights will just be little twinkling points - but add smoke and you'll reduce the brightness of the projector even more.

[empyfree]

 

That software looks like it will do what you need at the moment! But you might want to consider something which will allow you to create more complicated setups when your ready. That could either be something which will output using a protocol called syphon (it allows different programs to send video to each other on the same computer or even over a network) so that you could send it into something like MadMapper and map things OR I'd suggest having a look at Resolume. Its a more well known piece of software which should mean you can get better support for it, and still has all the midi controls and things you want (it can even control lights so that they match the video if you wanted) but when your ready it will allow you to create much more complicated things without having to buy something new. BUT it might be a step too far, there's a trial available so no harm in giving it a go!

 

I'd say your best bet might be seeing how far you can get by yourself (particularly with the software side of things) and then getting someone in for a day who can help really push forwards what you've done. Theres loads of people on here who would be suitable and happy to pass on some knowledge. Likely you'll need to pay their day rate, but you might be lucky enough to find someone who's interested enough in what your doing to help you out!

 

I've not used that software before, but just to point out it does support Syphon.

 

Having said that, more common choices are VLC (free and basic), playback pro (expensive, simple and reliable) and Resolume Arena (awesome, fairly expensive but with a steep learning curve).

[dedzyyy]

Resolute looks good, but the price tag is a little out of my reach! Although, they do 50% off wth student discount. I mean, I'm almost 30! But I'm doing a lvl3 NVQ in mechanical engineering in the aviation industry which to my surprise, qualifies for an NUS card. Result!

 

I'm thinking the best way for us at the moment is keep everything super simple and DIY, create the visuals to the songs and press play, so nothing too complicated but done to a high standard.

 

I've pulled the trigger on the Epson. My thinking is if I can''t make it work they seem to hold their value, or the mrs could have a sweet home cinema and I could try a different venue.

If it works well, and the project takes off, then there's no harm in getting others involved and doing a professional job of things. I have a lot of creative friends.

 

 

Here's a low res video I've put together for this project. https://www.dropbox.com/s/fg3j8fl4rfq3bur/18%20Video%20Small.mov?dl=0

 

It's super chilled out techno, loads of piano, strings, warbly space echo and a disgusting amount of reverb :]

A lot of the other visuals have been put together with after effects, but that's the only track I have room for on drop box right now.

 

 

Thanks for everyone's help! I'm sure when the projector turns up there'll be even more dumb questions!

 

Oh here's another video of the sort of thing I'll be doing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0W_K874jYts

[ImagineerTom]

I've worked with a number of people doing what you're doing - DJ shadow uses 3x 5000 lumen projectors and requires a near black-out for his show to work - https://www.youtube....?v=b1bUt42CwCY. Floating Points stripped it right down to graphics that could be projected with a laser https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Con9G1xWgAA3LMT.jpg:large required a near black-out with very carefully programmed lighting to keep all spill off the projector screen.

 

 

What you're trying to do isn't difficult and there are plenty of people out there with the experience and expertise to do it; but it does require a much higher technical (and financial) outlay than you seem to expect. Bot of these bands also arrived with dedicated projection tech's with lots of experience and a solid understanding of the needs of the lighting (and safety lighting) requirements in venues so that everything they asked other departments to do was realistic, practical and legal. Before you spend too much more time and money on this idea you really need to beg/steal/borrow some kit, take it to a real venue, set it up in real-world time and subject it to the real-world lighting and technical requirements you will be facing every night with it as you're going to find that the stuff you think is simple turns out to be fiendishly difficult & expensive.

[paulears]

Tom - I was thinking the same thing? Surely it's best to borrow some kit and try it out before you spend money? I think that we've all been taken in at some point by specs - buying items the specs suggest will do the job, and then finding issues. Even if you had to pay real money to hire a projector and screen for a gig - you'd have some kind of baseline evidence you could use to guide your purchase.