Discreet Mic'ing of Grand Piano

[Ste Bellamy Sound]

Hello, Apologies if this has been posted in one form or another before.

 

I am after some advice

 

I am needing to mic up a grand piano, but the clause is, it needs to be discreet and preferably wireless,

I have all the radio gear to my disposal and I have a few ideas but I was wondering if any of you have attempted this before and what kind of results you got.

 

Its a ridiculously expensive piano, so fixing something for a transmitter or mic to sit has to be temporary and not leave any trace.

Im not looking to do it in the cheapest way possible but cost effective solutions are always welcome. I know DPA have something but its a fair investment for something that may only be used 4 times a year.

The venue would prefer to buy in than hire.

 

so who has got a great idea?

[Bobbsy]

You're trying to compromise two conflicting requirements if you want both discrete but no physical attachment to the piano.

 

One thing I saw used once was one of THESE. From memory, the plates that sit on the piano were augmented with rubber pads to eliminate any risk of rubbing.

 

For mics, if you could run cables out the upstage side of the piano I'm sure that could be done "discretely". However, if RF is mandated, you could use a couple of SKP300 adaptors on whatever mics you like. Or, although I've never tried it, I suspect some of the Sennheiser condenser radio mics would sound pretty good on piano. I'd be will to bet the series 2000 mic with a Neumann 104 head would be very nice indeed.

 

Or, if they loosen the concept of discrete, a black mic stand would be hard to see against a piano and make you life much easier.

[Ste Bellamy Sound]

You're trying to compromise two conflicting requirements if you want both discrete but no physical attachment to the piano.

 

One thing I saw used once was one of THESE. From memory, the plates that sit on the piano were augmented with rubber pads to eliminate any risk of rubbing.

 

For mics, if you could run cables out the upstage side of the piano I'm sure that could be done "discretely". However, if RF is mandated, you could use a couple of SKP300 adaptors on whatever mics you like. Or, although I've never tried it, I suspect some of the Sennheiser condenser radio mics would sound pretty good on piano. I'd be will to bet the series 2000 mic with a Neumann 104 head would be very nice indeed.

 

Or, if they loosen the concept of discrete, a black mic stand would be hard to see against a piano and make you life much easier.

 

That dose seem to be the best Idea, I was thinking of doing something with plug on transformers. thanks for your input.

[p.k.roberts]

I'm not sure whether you're just looking for a mounting system or mics as well; Audix and Earthworks both make fairly discrete kits (at a price) if you are looking for mics as well. I do think though that a piano is going to be a tough challenge for the companders in even the best radio kit; I'd go for copper if I possibly could.

[carlskeats]

I would recommend using Shure ULX-D1 Beltpacks with DPA D:Vote 4099 Piano mics. The ULX-D is digital transmittion over normal UHF spectrum so will not have the normal issues with companding. The D:Vote 4099 Piano mounts are soft rubber coated and magentic and do not scratch so give you the ability to place where you want.

the 4099 will also run off the 5v phantom power that is available from a beltpack.

[Solstace]

For apparently similar requirements, a fair few years ago I hooked up a lovely Steinway with a pair of Bartlett TM-125's. Wired, yes (I'll come to that) - and I usually had them set up in a semi-ORTF pattern, sat on the sound board away from the strings, between the sound holes toward the centre of the curves - they provided a lovely stereo image of the whole instrument while being visually unobtrusive. May not have been "correct", but still very useful both for recording and live use. Usually the rubber feet on the mics are enough isolation, but sometimes a foam pad or even a paper napkin can be a useful addition if you've got a lively player or a hollow stage and lots of low-end transferred through it. For our application at the time it was a good compromise between feedback rejection, range of "styles" it gets used for (enough "bite" for contemporary styles, enough range and depth for classical styles) and with some delay can be mixed into orchestra concerto pieces as spot-mics.

 

Never needed a wireless application for that rig, and for classical stuff I wouldn't have wanted the potential audio quality hit - companding and related RF systems never *quite* sound right to my ear on clean musical sources, especially in busy RF environments. Even for spoken word things can be a little "off". I'm a little fussy these days and find there's nothing *quite* like real copper between a mic and a mixer - that, and it was quick-and-easy enough to strap a stage-box onto a leg and plug in/out whenever needed, even for stage-hands to do when the piano was moved to and from centre-stage during a concert. If you were really keen you could convert any P48 mic to wireless if there is real need.

 

Best thing about that setup was that it was completely replicable by *anyone* on the team, and was immune to the usual cramped-stage issues of people knocking and/or tripping over extra stands/boom-arms - and it carried much less mud up from the stage too, without need for spider-rigs to isolate the mics at the end of the stands.

[Simon Lewis]

I haven't had the chance to use them, but have been quite impressed by the sound from the demo CD of the DPA d:vote piano mics. They have a magnetic mount system.

[GridGirl]

We regularly have pianos in the pit when the ballet is in town - for some reason they often perform to piano concerti. Our audio guys use something very very similar to the Earthworks mic mentioned above - it may be that exact one, I'm not sure as I haven't seen the box! - with pretty much zero problems. It's very discreet although it is cabled - I don't have any advice to offer in that subject!

[paulears]

The one thing I have noticed over the years is that pianos are so different that the technique that works on one fails on another. Every time I get a make or even model I've never seen before, it's best guess to start!

[J Pearce]

The dpa d:vote system is very easy to deploy, very subtle visually, and sounds wonderful.

I seem to recall it also works at half stick - useful for jazz and orchestral where full stick isn't always appropriate.

[Charlotte_R]

Last time I had to mic a piano, I used a Beta 91 sat inside. It sounded nice enough to my ears, but I'm no professional.

[sandall]

A long time ago I did a touring date for the Original Ink Spots (I think 1 or 2 of the older ones might have been original). When I came to mic the piano in what I thought was the "proper" way I was told in no uncertain terms that the "proper" way was a single mic on a short stand underneath & that was what they were going to have.

 

To be fair, it didn't sound bad, & it's what I usually do for simple reinforcement.

[john deans]

Done the same! Placed 2 se300/ck1 in a short stand with a stereo bar and isolating mount under the piano which was on short stick so it didn't get in the way of the choir behind it